Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

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11-20-2010, 10:41 AM
Talis

Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

A man returning from the Dominican Republic had his laptop and cellphone taken at the airport (JFK) on his return. They held him for five hours and requested his encryption passwords. He refused to give them the passwords but he assumes with the time they had his stuff that they made copies of everything.

Somewhat of a special case as he is probably being targeted due to his job/hobby... But good to know that you can refuse to give your passwords and there is not much they can do about it.

Complete story here: http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=10187
11-20-2010, 10:44 AM
hugrad95a

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talis

A man returning from the Dominican Republic had his laptop and cellphone taken at the airport (JFK) on his return. They held him for five hours and requested his encryption passwords. He refused to give them the passwords but he assumes with the time they had his stuff that they made copies of everything.

Somewhat of a special case as he is probably being targeted due to his job/hobby... But good to know that you can refuse to give your passwords and there is not much they can do about it.

Complete story here: http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=10187

He was a hacker they were waiting for him. .
11-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Talis

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugrad95a

He was a hacker they were waiting for him. .

The reason he was stopped is not what interested me... The interesting part is that they asked for the encryption passwords. Always good to see confirmation that you can refuse and there is nothing they will do about it. Stand your ground and they will let you go.
11-20-2010, 11:48 AM
vewdew

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

It was a routine stop check kinda thing, thats why he refused and they let him go, they didn't have nothin to to arrest him.

But yes its nice to know that you can refuse to give personal passwords :)
11-20-2010, 12:36 PM
questner

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Encrypt, deny, be prepared

http://www.truecrypt.org/ Provides plausible deniability, in case an adversary forces you to reveal the password

United States Bill of Rights
Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

SEARCH OR SEIZURE.

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
11-20-2010, 12:46 PM
Talis

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by questner

Encrypt, deny, be prepared

http://www.truecrypt.org/ Provides plausible deniability, in case an adversary forces you to reveal the password

seizure.

I use truecrypt - by plausible denial they are referring to creating invisible encrypted partitions within an encrypted partition. The idea being that if you are forced to give up your password for the outer encryption all they would see is an empty file system inside or the files you placed there.

Seems a bit overkill unless you have mafia spreadsheets or kiddie porn... and they should notice the difference in the amount of available disk space if they are really looking at you hard.
11-20-2010, 12:48 PM
Talis

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by vewdew

It was a routine stop check kinda thing, thats why he refused and they let him go, they didn't have nothin to to arrest him.

But yes its nice to know that you can refuse to give personal passwords :)

Not routine in this case but they did not have any legal way to force him, true enough... But you know how it is.. a couple agents can take you into a corner office and they can intimidate those that do not know their rights.
11-20-2010, 01:27 PM
princepointe

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Not surprised they asked for it at all. Cops ask to look in your truck or can they come into your place all the time. Without probable cause or a warrant they can't. If you say YES they can but other than that they can't. Thing is, most people fear authority figures and allow them to do what they want. Glad I grew up where I did. In the immortal words of NWA.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqKut2JfHs
11-20-2010, 01:29 PM
Aren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talis

I use truecrypt - by plausible denial they are referring to creating invisible encrypted partitions within an encrypted partition. The idea being that if you are forced to give up your password for the outer encryption all they would see is an empty file system inside or the files you placed there.

Long ago I had a thought about this, the plausible deniability thing is not going to help much really, whoever reads the truecrypt first web page will know that there is a possibility of two passwords/partitions - you need to start this program to enter the first password (so they know what program you're using).

So they will ask you for the second password ...!? If you say you don't have a hidden partition they will suspect you anyway... The same way they can't prove you have one, you can't prove you don't ! If you see what I mean, I don't have a better solution, I'm just saying...

(By the way it is very difficult to figure out if there is a second hidden partition, I think that is the whole point of the program - though you must follow their recommendations not to leave any traces).
11-20-2010, 01:34 PM
GrandePadre

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Yep ask for everything and see what they give you. Most folks don't know how to say now to a person in an authority position.
11-20-2010, 07:42 PM
greydread

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by questner

Encrypt, deny, be prepared

http://www.truecrypt.org/ Provides plausible deniability, in case an adversary forces you to reveal the password

United States Bill of Rights
Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The encrypt and deny part is definitely the way to go.

Forget the Fourth Ammendment. The Patriot Act pretty much shredded it.

TSA asked me to power my netbook on at the security screening this trip. I turned it on and they saw my home screen but I never logged in, nor would I have if they'd asked.
11-22-2010, 01:10 PM
Seville

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

These things have always bothered me too. Like when you are pulled over by a cop in the states, they almost always ask something like "Where you coming from?" or "Where are you going". That is none of their business and they have no legal right to a response. The problem is if you tell them it is none of their business then they will bust your balls for whatever they can.
12-02-2010, 06:22 PM
major448

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

An interesting link about using TrueCrypt.

http://news.techworld.com/security/3...ack-truecrypt/

Be safe out there ....
12-02-2010, 07:28 PM
WSJ3

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by vewdew

It was a routine stop check kinda thing, thats why he refused and they let him go, they didn't have nothin to to arrest him.

But yes its nice to know that you can refuse to give personal passwords :)

I get stopped all the time and unless you are being specifically targeted they usually don't take you into the back to get waterboarded.
01-09-2011, 03:58 AM
Magick

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talis

A man returning from the Dominican Republic had his laptop and cellphone taken at the airport (JFK) on his return. They held him for five hours and requested his encryption passwords. He refused to give them the passwords but he assumes with the time they had his stuff that they made copies of everything.

Somewhat of a special case as he is probably being targeted due to his job/hobby... But good to know that you can refuse to give your passwords and there is not much they can do about it.

Complete story here: http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=10187

Hackers have conferences? :eek: SMDH!:mad:
01-09-2011, 04:00 AM
Magick

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSJ3

I get stopped all the time and unless you are being specifically targeted they usually don't take you into the back to get waterboarded.

So is that what's going on everytime i see folks going into those lil rooms once you pass the people who check you and your passport?
01-09-2011, 08:55 AM
PapiQueRico

Re: Customs takes Latop, requests encryption

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert13212

These things have always bothered me too. Like when you are pulled over by a cop in the states, they almost always ask something like "Where you coming from?" or "Where are you going". That is none of their business and they have no legal right to a response. The problem is if you tell them it is none of their business then they will bust your balls for whatever they can.

The situation you describe is very different form entering the country. Our rights to privacy are greatly reduced at immigrations.

I agree with you about cops at a traffic stop. When they ask where I have been I always want to say something like 'sticking my dick in your sister's ass.'

Instead of telling them it is none of their bussiness, I ask them questions back. "What's the problem officer? Do I have a tail light out?"