12/2007 - Spirit Airlines updates and deals

[JD426]

IMO, the UAW and their hefty pensions LITERALLY destroyed the auto industry & can be blamed for all those jobs going overseas.
$2500 of every car went to pensions. that is a FAILED business model.
Noone ever believed GM could go out of business.
The NJEA here in nj (teachers union) literaly think they run the Public School system which is 100% paid with our Tax Dollars. $20K to educate a kid in some districts, and they cant read or write when they graduate.
100 Million $$ a year the union collect from teachers each year, but when 5 teachers get laid off to protect ONE high salary ADMINISTRATOR , they say nothing and blame it on the Governors cuts. Who exactly do they represent ??
Dont have much love for them.

[papi_sosua]

Bull****. The American auto-industry went south because every, literally every, European automotive engineer who looks at an American designed car, first has a look of disbelief on their face, and then falls over laughing.
The technology used in European cars is about 25 years ahead of what you can buy American. Same goes for technologies as they relate to housing construction (energy efficiency, windows, plumbing, electrical).

The reason nobody wants to buy American these days is, because nobody likes to buy crap. I can get that cheaper from China.

IMO, the UAW and their hefty pensions LITERALLY destroyed the auto industry & can be blamed for all those jobs going overseas.
$2500 of every car went to pensions. that is a FAILED business model.
Noone ever believed GM could go out of business.
The NJEA here in nj (teachers union) literaly think they run the Public School system which is 100% paid with our Tax Dollars. $20K to educate a kid in some districts, and they cant read or write when they graduate.
100 Million $$ a year the union collect from teachers each year, but when 5 teachers get laid off to protect ONE high salary ADMINISTRATOR , they say nothing and blame it on the Governors cuts. Who exactly do they represent ??
Dont have much love for them.

[SeaWeed]

the longer this strike goes on.......the better possibility there won't be a Spirit Airlines anymore......
anyone ever remember an airline name Eastern.......

[papi_sosua]

And anybody remember airlines named Delta, AA, United ? They are all unionized. So, what's your point?

the longer this strike goes on.......the better possibility there won't be a Spirit Airlines anymore......
anyone ever remember an airline name Eastern.......

[papi_sosua]

Post Scriptum:

As an aside: Germany (BMW, VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes) has nationalized health care. It has also, by comparison to the US, a generous wealth-fare system: You don't have a job? You will be provided for: housing, food, electricity, water; the essentials. But nobody has to live on the street, or die for lack of health insurance.

And all the workers of BMW, VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes pay into the system. And so do you, if you buy any of those driving machines.

I'd be happy to pay $2,500 into Ford's pension system. However, my 2002 Ford Explorer quit after 90k mi. with a severe ($3k+) transmission problem. Junk made in the USA (http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Explorer/2002/)

IMO, the UAW and their hefty pensions LITERALLY destroyed the auto industry & can be blamed for all those jobs going overseas.
$2500 of every car went to pensions. that is a FAILED business model.
Noone ever believed GM could go out of business.
The NJEA here in nj (teachers union) literaly think they run the Public School system which is 100% paid with our Tax Dollars. $20K to educate a kid in some districts, and they cant read or write when they graduate.
100 Million $$ a year the union collect from teachers each year, but when 5 teachers get laid off to protect ONE high salary ADMINISTRATOR , they say nothing and blame it on the Governors cuts. Who exactly do they represent ??
Dont have much love for them.

[hioctane]

IMO, the UAW and their hefty pensions LITERALLY destroyed the auto industry & can be blamed for all those jobs going overseas.
$2500 of every car went to pensions. that is a FAILED business model.
Noone ever believed GM could go out of business.
The NJEA here in nj (teachers union) literaly think they run the Public School system which is 100% paid with our Tax Dollars. $20K to educate a kid in some districts, and they cant read or write when they graduate.
100 Million $$ a year the union collect from teachers each year, but when 5 teachers get laid off to protect ONE high salary ADMINISTRATOR , they say nothing and blame it on the Governors cuts. Who exactly do they represent ??
Dont have much love for them.

I totally agree. The concept of using current money to pay for future retirees is a bad model.. It is the exact problem with Social Security.

Now I'm not against unionization.. but I think there should be an independent arbitrator to decide union/employer disputes like in the MLB. Without something like this.. It will come down to who is stronger and not what is fair for all.

[hioctane]

Bull****. The American auto-industry went south because every, literally every, European automotive engineer who looks at an American designed car, first has a look of disbelief on their face, and then falls over laughing.
The technology used in European cars is about 25 years ahead of what you can buy American. Same goes for technologies as they relate to housing construction (energy efficiency, windows, plumbing, electrical).

The reason nobody wants to buy American these days is, because nobody likes to buy crap. I can get that cheaper from China.

Union labor also makes things more expensive. American cars are also more expensive to buy and more expensive to fix.

European cars are not more popular than Japanese cars that have lots of interchangeable parts that can mass produced in China... passing on more savings to the consumer. Europeans may be better built but it's mainly high end and fashionable. Most people will buy Japanese because it is cheap.

[hioctane]

Mind you I don't work for AA but I do know bargaining in bad faith when I see it.

Like I said.. One side always seems to lose.. The stronger side wins... in this case the owners.. which is why I advocate independent arbitration.

[JD426]

I totally agree. The concept of using current money to pay for future retirees is a bad model.. It is the exact problem with Social Security.

Now I'm not against unionization.. but I think there should be an independent arbitrator to decide union/employer disputes like in the MLB. Without something like this.. It will come down to who is stronger and not what is fair for all.

Thats all I was trying to say,
Like here in NJ again, NOTHING AGAINST COPS., but they make $94K a year in virtually NO crime Towns, retire anytime after 20 yrs ,move to South Carolina, and we pay them a FAT pension til they die ... It can NO longer be DONE.
FAT PENSIONS are NOT sustainable wether in the public sector or Private mainly because people live much longer than ever before. Its a house of cards. A Legalized ponzi Scheme really.

[papi_sosua]

You have no clue of what you are talking about.
EOD (End of discussion.)

Union labor also makes things more expensive. American cars are also more expensive to buy and more expensive to fix.

European cars are not more popular than Japanese cars that have lots of interchangeable parts that can mass produced in China... passing on more savings to the consumer. Europeans may be better built but it's mainly high end and fashionable. Most people will buy Japanese because it is cheap.

[papi_sosua]

It's actually called a generational contract. Just as our parents took care of us, when we were young, we'll take care of our parents as they age and become infirm. And the generation after us, will take care of your and my ass...

What's so difficult to comprehend about this concept? Unless you only believe in the mighty buck, right here, right now!

Thats all I was trying to say,
Like here in NJ again, NOTHING AGAINST COPS., but they make $94K a year in virtually NO crime Towns, retire anytime after 20 yrs ,move to South Carolina, and we pay them a FAT pension til they die ... It can NO longer be DONE.
FAT PENSIONS are NOT sustainable wether in the public sector or Private mainly because people live much longer than ever before. Its a house of cards. A Legalized ponzi Scheme really.

[JD426]

When MY TAX money pays a 45 year old a BIG FAT pension while I am still busting my ass at 50-70 in the private sector to pay even MORE taxes, I see a problem there , maybe you dont.
401K I dont have a problem with, PENSIONS I do.
diff topic though...

you may have a PHD in chemistry or whatever,
but obviously its not in MATH. (sorry for that cheap shot, but)
The #s dont lie, it DOESNT WORK ..
Its no different than what Bernie Madoff did.
Eventually the POOL of money RUNS DRY, and EVERYONE LOSES.
we didnt even talk about mandatory RAISES, while the rest of the private sector is getting PAY FREEZES and on a 4 day schedual, IF they have a Job at all.

[papi_sosua]

OK, maybe I don't have a PhD in math!

But maybe, just maybe the whole system is fucked up. So, what are we going to do? Incarcerate Bush, Obama, and the top 20 WS billionaires for life?

You have my vote!

When MY TAX money pays a 45 year old a BIG FAT pension while I am still busting my ass at 50-70 in the private sector to pay even MORE taxes, I see a problem there , maybe you dont.
401K I dont have a problem with, PENSIONS I do.
diff topic though...

you may have a PHD in chemistry or whatever,
but obviously its not in MATH. (sorry for that cheap shot, but)
The #s dont lie, it DOESNT WORK ..
Its no different than what Bernie Madoff did.
Eventually the POOL of money RUNS DRY, and EVERYONE LOSES.
we didnt even talk about mandatory RAISES, while the rest of the private sector is getting PAY FREEZES and on a 4 day schedual, IF they have a Job at all.

[JD426]

First step is recognizing that there is a PROBLEM.
Plenty of time later to point fingers.
This sense of Entitlement has to stop, thats the next step, IMO.

[papi_sosua]

Por favor, define entitlement!

Am I (or you, or the pilots) entitled to decent living? Not generous, mind you. But afford basic housing, food, water, electricity, and health care? Maybe fuck a chica or two every 12-months?

In my books, that's not entitlement. It's a basic huMAN right.

First step is recognizing that there is a PROBLEM.
Plenty of time later to point fingers.
This sense of Entitlement has to stop, thats the next step, IMO.

[JD426]

So you are saying EVERY PERSON is ENTITLED to a JOB ??
and that job MUST include certain benefits ,paid for by the employer ?
And a Decent living ? ?
U must be joking, We are entitled to a "decent living " as a Human Right ?
Where in the constitution does it say that ? Doesnt minimum wage cover that ?
btw, Mc Donalds is paying kids $11 an hour, thats a FREEE market, cause little snot nosed teenagers wont work for Min Wage. But they are not getting $11 because they are "entitled to it" .


You are entitled to whatever salary the employer agrees to pay you, and when your services are no longer needed, u are entitled to NOTHING more then what is in your contract.
NJ is AT WILL for example, the employer doesnt have to even have a reason for letting you go.

[hioctane]

OK, maybe I don't have a PhD in math!

But maybe, just maybe the whole system is fucked up. So, what are we going to do? Incarcerate Bush, Obama, and the top 20 WS billionaires for life?

You have my vote!

Yeah the system is fucked up.. You need to fix the problem and not say there isn't one..

[hioctane]

Por favor, define entitlement!

Am I (or you, or the pilots) entitled to decent living? Not generous, mind you. But afford basic housing, food, water, electricity, and health care? Maybe fuck a chica or two every 12-months?

In my books, that's not entitlement. It's a basic huMAN right.

Are you saying pilots don't make a decent living? If they don't like the pay at their current job, look for a new job! Are they anywhere near being able to get "basic" necessities? Maybe if you work at McDonald's you have a point!

[hioctane]

It's actually called a generational contract. Just as our parents took care of us, when we were young, we'll take care of our parents as they age and become infirm. And the generation after us, will take care of your and my ass...

What's so difficult to comprehend about this concept? Unless you only believe in the mighty buck, right here, right now!

Yes the problem is that it can't be sustained.. Which is the problem with social security.. Like a ponzi scheme.. New people put money in and old people pull money out. As people are living longer.. they are pulling out more.. but there is not enough new people to put in money. To sustain it you're going to need to find more money or cut benefits.. If you cut benefits, you can't survive. See the problem with this concept? It's a like a deck of cards.

[hioctane]

You have no clue of what you are talking about.
EOD (End of discussion.)

The top 10 cars in America are mostly Japanese.. They also happen to be the cheapest.

If you don't think union labor raises the cost of a car.. you are in a fantasy world. More pay for workers = higher price of car.

When most people buy a car (I mean most and not some rich guys), they look at the sticker price and the cost to maintain.. Japanese cars beats every other car hands down.