Los Charamicos development, a planner's conception - copy job

[Sidney]

You know nothing about Puerto Plata?


Wow!

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember the road being re-constructed for 5+years. A supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? For me, I try to avoid PP.

[Jimmydr]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember the road being re-constructed for 5+years. A supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? For me, I try yo avoid PP.

If I lived there I would stick with Puerto Plata, have a fw 100 amigas and never set foot in the town of Sosua.

[Sidney]

You know nothing about Puerto Plata?


Wow!

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember to road being re-constucted for 5+years. Supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? I try to avoid PP.

[DMV]

All of this sounds like what happen with Juan Dolio in the south. Wasn't it hyped as the next Miami South Beach? Last time I was there it looked unfinshed and not many things to do. Does anyone know what happen?

[Jimmydr]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. i remember to road being re-constucted for 5+years. Supoosedly polluted beach front. Does that help?

I can see why you are upset about the new sosua. The chicas will miss you once you are gone.

[whatever]

The DomRep passport has a very cheesy reputation in the world.

It's not the passport it's the culture. No one in the world
wants a bunch of uneducated idiots (Dominicans) that
would fuck up cleaning a toilet.

[Westy]

It's not the passport it's the culture. No one in the world
wants a bunch of uneducated idiots (Dominicans) that
would fuck up cleaning a toilet.

Actually, Whatever, it's simpler and worse. The information I've got is from The Complete Guide to Offshore Residency, Dual Citizenship & Second Passports, by J.D. Bauman, J.D. (Doctor of Law), published by The Sovereign Society. The shorthand reference is "The Passport Book":

In 1999, a Russian national was arrested at London's Heathrow International Airport with a suitcase full of official Dominican Republic passports. In recent years, there have been several similar scandals in which quantities of DomRep passports were apparently sold by people with government connections. Although the stolen passports involved were official, the fact that they were being sold on the black market called into question everyone traveling on DomRep passports. The customs and immigration services of every major nation knew this and acted accordingly, much to the chagrin of the legal DomRep passport holders.

By some estimates, almost 10,000 passports were sold illegally, for as little as US$5000 and for as much as US$18000. The sellers claimed that the passports were valid for six years with automatic renewal at any DomRep Consulate. Needless to say, they were not renewed.

At the present time, there is no 'instant' DomRe[p passport program available, regardless of what you may be told. Yet, one continues to see numerous advertisements in international publications promising quick 'official' DomRep passports, always at inflated prices.

There are too many legitimate second passport possibilities without having to chance it with a DomRep passport. Stay away unless you make your second home or business there.

I acknowledge the propriety of Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence." There is incompetence galore in any DomRep official business, to be sure. But the passport thievery is beyond merely incompetent - and the point is that a Dominican Republic passport is worthless, anyways, to anyone who might want a second passport for travel.

I think the consensus here on ISOC is that the only thing a Dominican can do is fuck, suck, and collect their Western Union pension.

[Nakom]

I can cetainly believe that someone is building a luxury resort in and around Sosua, and cleaning up the town will attract the kind of people with money to invest in it.

What I find hard to believe, is that they are going to relocate the barrio, clean out all the putas (working legally), and turn the Sosua area (shitty beach) in to the DR's Cayman Islands, complete with cruise ship harbors, ect.

Sosua might be a good location, but there are much easier places to buy raw land and not deal politically, and have to deal with a Barrio with 60-100K people in it. If there was that much intrest and money involved, you would think they would buy up most of Cabarete, or start fresh farther down the north coast. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.

That is unless the Dominican Government is planning on building the resort........ like Cuba.

Just my $0.02

[eldorob]

. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.

But these people are already invested in sosua. There are large projects underway and more in the planning stages. So my guess is that a few of them got together, decided the town was headed in the wrong direction, too dirty, too many putas, too many young gringos, crime increasing, ... and they helped get the mayor elected - financial backing, support, assistance, whatever.

LIke you said, you don't "get big money by being stupid" When you have a project in the works and things are going bad, you take control and make changes. You don't have any other choice. I think that's what happened in sosua.

No, Sosua will never be the Riviera, or the South of France. But when we come out of this rotten economy, and we will, there will be a pent up demand for warm-weather retirement homes and lots of vacation dollars sitting around. If the dom govt doubles or triples their advertising budget like they have talked about, people will check out the North Coast.

[Jimmydr]

No, Sosua will never be the Riviera, or the South of France. But when we come out of this rotten economy, and we will, there will be a pent up demand for warm-weather retirement homes and lots of vacation dollars sitting around. If the dom govt doubles or triples their advertising budget like they have talked about, people will check out the North Coast.

I read that there will be a new underclass in the US and we will never be back where we were.

[jose1234]

In the USA they have something called "Eminent Domain" where the government can take citizens land if the government can demonstrate the project provides the greater community with a benefit (public good reason) and the government provides just compensation as administered by the courts... It seems perfectly conceivable that the DR government will want to renovate or redevelop a piece of run-down land that could be developed into a marina, shopping area and maybe even a cruise boat port/destination that would provide income and jobs to the community. Weather after all the graft and mismanagement is done the project is completed is another story... Better to give the project to a foreign developer or group of them with their own engineers to build...

[Westy]

I can cetainly believe that someone is building a luxury resort in and around Sosua, and cleaning up the town will attract the kind of people with money to invest in it.

What I find hard to believe, is that they are going to relocate the barrio, clean out all the putas (working legally), and turn the Sosua area (shitty beach) in to the DR's Cayman Islands, complete with cruise ship harbors, ect.

Sosua might be a good location, but there are much easier places to buy raw land and not deal politically, and have to deal with a Barrio with 60-100K people in it. If there was that much intrest and money involved, you would think they would buy up most of Cabarete, or start fresh farther down the north coast. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.

That is unless the Dominican Government is planning on building the resort........ like Cuba.

Just my $0.02

Pardon me, Nakom, but I believe you may have overestimated the population of Los Charamicos by at least an order of magnitude. The total population of Puerto Plata province is about 325,000 - that takes in all of the city of Puerto Plata, Sosua, Luperon, and more; an area of 1853 square kilometers or 715 square miles, about the size of the USA state of Rhode Island. How could even the Dominicans jam one-fifth of that population into a space of maybe 20 hectares (0.2 square km, or 50 acres)?

Maybe more like two or three thousand in Los Charamicos? Just speculating.

Please realize that I don't seek to minimize the situation and I certainly am not on the side of the developers. But there is a recent, local precedent for moving 'los pobrecitos' out of the way of a glittering new luxury development, in Tablón, isn't there? Promise them nice new homes, build them a few blocks of cheap apartments somewhere out of the way, and get on with "urban renewal" ...

BTW, raw land somewhere else would be easier and much more palatable, if we weren't talking of developing a harbor and a yacht basin, too. Take a look at Ocean World, up by Cofresi; they put a tremendous amount of work into that breakwater, to make a workable yacht harbor out of raw coastline. Cabarete would take a major engineering project like that, to create a comparable "parking lot for yachts". Sosua Bay is sheltered by comparison, even though Royal Carib's "Plunderer Of The Seas" (just kidding, RCCL) would have to moor out and send tourists in by shore-boats - as they do at Grand Cayman.

[mho]

Annual real-estate taxes are something like 1% of the assessed value of the property; that's $1500 yearly on a $150,000 home; and I don't doubt you could get a decent home for $150,000 in the Sosua area. (To support that, I took a look at the Century 21 realtor in Sosua. Yep; gated-community 'villas' with private swimming pools are in the $150,000 range in their Sosua listings. Not mansions, but nice-looking.)

This is also called Florida.

Most people are more interested in quality medical, police and city services for their "golden" years and not easy access to cheap whores.

[Nakom]

I stand corrected.

[Mr Hillbilly]

This is also called Florida.

Most people are more interested in quality medical, police and city services for their "golden" years and not easy access to cheap whores.

The thought of spending my ''Golden Years'' learning how to line dance and having Betty White gumm my pecker in Palm beach sounds tempting--No Thanks!

I will take my chances with stray bullet from El Flow or getting raped by FARC chics.

[eldorob]

The thought of spending my ''Golden Years'' learning how to line dance and having Betty White gumm my pecker in Palm beach sounds tempting--No Thanks!

.

About six years ago, I started agonizing that I wanted to go somewhere warm, but hated the thought of retiring to florida with all those nasty OLD people.

Then Jimmy showed me the light...

[Nakom]

I think I am going to join Prince and retire to Idaho and throw potatoes at Talis.

[Jimmydr]

In the USA they have something called "Eminent Domain" where the government can take citizens land if the government can demonstrate the project provides the greater community with a benefit (public good reason) and the government provides just compensation as administered by the courts...

Every country has this except in some countries they shoot everyone living on the land that they need.

[Ter319]

Plus it is close to the U.S. that is why I chose here for now,when they open up Cuba lots of people from the U.S. will anxious to go there to see what is up.

The possibility of Cuba opening up to US in the near future and definitely with in our life times could be a strong motivation. This could all be be them trying to save them selves and get as much money as they can before it becomes to late, regardless of what they actually do with it. I am not saying we as Americans are the only ones visiting DR or investing but I certainly would say that the amount of investment that would be heading to CUBA once it opens would be astronomical. We all been to DR, we know all the money coming in isn't going back in to the country tourist areas, only peoples pockets. As many members here can attest too, most of caribbean countries invest at least some of the money back into the tourist spots. As for the cruise ships coming, Im sure they will have their work cut out for them, cause I am sure most cruise ship destinations would not give up their islands as ports without a fight, but with the possibility of Cuba opening and the DR probably only a days sail away this could have more truth to it.

[Westy]

I was checking out the Sosua thread in "the other monger site" and someone new to the site posted the following message. I don't think he represents the investors who have the Mayor cleaning up Sosua, but his message does present a good example of the thinking and planning behind a major new resort....

I have been following the daily discussion (on Sosua) and thought I would put my perspective out here.

First, I am making my first trip ever to the DR this coming April. Why, you ask, should I have a comment on a place I have never been to? I own a company that specializes in resorts. We own several, usually buying a great site, dozing over the old and putting up new. We typically spend $100 (to) $150M US on a three year design / build. We do golf courses, marinas, hotels, tennis complexes, and beach resorts. Our latest acquisition is a ski resort with 4, 000 acres we purchased for $12M. We will spend another $150M to build all new facilities, add a village and make it a year round resort.

With that said there are companies always interested in finding new areas to develop. St Lucia, San Martin, and many other Caribbean destinations were all once sleepy little unheard of destinations until someone went in and put it on the map. There is always room for a new place. The last time I checked they are not making any new waterfront property.

There are many places with great vistas available for development. Infrastructure is important, and the airport in PP with daily nonstop service to cities like New York, are strong drawing cards. And yes Cuba is certainly on the near horizon.

One is the most critical factors in any development is the 'red tape'. Money is easy compared to the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies that impose layer after layer of requirements that can multiply the cost of any development. It certainly sounds like DR is still years behind in this area.

If you can buy prime oceanfront property cheap that is located so near to a major airport and the regulations are nonexistent, you have a winning combination. Part of my first visit will be look at what the possibilities are.

Creating 400-500 steady jobs, paying taxes, buying local products, and boosting the image of an area, all help a developing area. More development usually follows.

Things change but the trade will always remain. Despite the total transformation of 42nd Street in New York you can find a hooker with ease. Certainly we will miss how things once were. I think back to Viet Nam and Thailand and the fond memories I have of how they were during the war. I miss those days but I still have fun every time I return. You make your own fun. If you like what you do and are good at it, you will succeed.

I look forward to my visit and creating new memories with friends I have not yet made. Hope to meet all of you during our visit.

Food for thought....