Haiti & the Dominican Republic: An Island Divided (Full Episode/Black in Latin Am.)

[joeysterr]

I would be very grateful if someone could record the Haitian program for me on DVD (to keep or to borrow) and bring it to the DR their next trip.

About that Weyland, the full video episode was available live all night last night. Was anybody else able to see it? Maybe they took it off the website since it is playing tomorrow night

[DEPUTY DAWG]

This is very good info!!!! Thanks for the heads up Joeysterrrrr!!!!! I would've missed it

[DMV]

About that Weyland, the full video episode was available live all night last night. Was anybody else able to see it? Maybe they took it off the website since it is playing tomorrow night

I watched it this morning from the link you posted. It was very informative. Although the objective was the history of Dominicans and Haitians, I wish he would have at least mentioned the Taino Indians. Their features are seen in a lot of Dominicans.

[hugrad95a]

http://news.insearchofchicas.org/for...=320161&page=2

I try to post interesting non monger stuff about the DR..

[hugrad95a]

[lobonegro]

Thanks for this link....it'll give some people a lil more insight...mainly todays Latino's in America

[weyland]

I wish he would have at least mentioned the Taino Indians. Their features are seen in a lot of Dominicans.

Do you believe in the tooth-fairy as well?

Most Amerindian features you occasionally see in Dominicans derive from much later immigrants from mainland Latin America. On one of my earlier trips, before I knew shit, my then girlfriend took me to meet a neighbour. I was astounded by her "pure Taino" appearance and everyone jumped enthusiastically on the bandwagon. After I had bought three or four rounds for half the barrio we were ready to declare her a national heritage treasure. A year later I found out she was half Peruvian and actually still had her late father's expired Peruvian passport.

The Taino component has always been largely a political myth promoted by successive Dominican regimes in an attempt to give the nation some sort of historical tradition, especially in contradistinction to, and denial of, the African component.

Of course it's a nice romantic story for upper-class and upper-middle-class Dominicans to peddle at dinner parties. Much more interesting and socially acceptable to say "my great, great, ... grandmother was a Taino princess (which kind of justifies my familiy's right to bleed the working people dry)" than "my blood is 10% African, many of my ancestors were slaves and I am far closer related to your average Haitian than I am to Tainos who died out in the 16th century".

All nations have these racist myths promoted for (usually evil) purposes. The Nazis were ace at it. When the British Empire was at the peak of its power and pomp in the Nineteenth Century the English were falling over themselves to trace their descent back to King Arthur (who, if he existed at all, certainly wasn't English and was hostile to the germanic invaders).

Of course a minute percentage of Dominican blood is Taino and there may be isolated villages where it is still concentrated enough to be visible (though nowhere near as many as propaganda claims) but scientific studies have shown that it is four times as prevalent among Haitians though less visible because of their strong African features. Dominicans conveniently omit that fact. Makes sense really, because most escaped African slaves would have interbred with the indigenous Amerindian population. There is a massive Amerindian element in vodou, the Haitian religion, and when Dessalines chose a name for the new republic he chose the Taino name "Ayiti" not a Spanish, French or African one, so he was trying to jump onto the same bandwagon.

So to get back to your original point. I haven't see this program, so if it was an in-depth study, then the Tainos should have been mentioned. But if, as I suspect, a brief overview then the author did well not to seem to give the issue an importance it does not merit.

[Hunter]

Of course it's a nice romantic story for upper-class and upper-middle-class Dominicans to peddle at dinner parties. Much more interesting and socially acceptable to say "my great, great, ... grandmother was a Taino princess (which kind of justifies my familiy's right to bleed the working people dry)" than "my blood is 10% African, many of my ancestors were slaves and I am far closer related to your average Haitian than I am to Tainos who died out in the 16th century".

Very good article I found from Miami Herald on this issue: Black Denial...

http://www.miamiherald.com:80/multim...rt2/index.html

[DMV]

Do you believe in the tooth-fairy as well?.

Yes I do, but tell me what about my statement set you off on this historical rant?

I stated that he should have mention them in his story. I don't believe a group of people that make up the mixture of this Island should be left out.
I live in country where the history of my ancestors where left out and to this day some are trying to rewrite it as though it wasn't that bad.

The Taino component has always been largely a political myth promoted by successive Dominican regimes in an attempt to give the nation some sort of historical tradition, especially in contradistinction to, and denial of, the African component.

Maybe you hang with a better class than I do, but I've met poor Dominicans who stated they have Taino ancestory. But it is not a myth and why would you deny that part of your history.

Many Black Americans claim they have Native Americans in the ancestory. Gates did another special that pointed out that many do not. As you stated it's a nice tale to pass on, but I don't think they are trying to deny any part of the history.

I was astounded by her "pure Taino" appearance and everyone jumped enthusiastically on the bandwagon.

Did she ever claim she was Taino? Too bad your princess didn't have Tanio in her but it doesn't mean that there are people on the Island that have Tanio ancestry.

[knotty]

DMV, I understand what you mean regarding he taino issue, but gates main focus has always been the black struggles in the Americas. the history regarding blacks in Latin America is rarely reported and often denied, sometimes just left out, like in Argentina. we have always heard about the European side. maybe a historian that focuses on the amerindian will create a documentary. there are plenty of clips to look at on YouTube.

[weyland]

I stated that he should have mention them in his story. I don't believe a group of people that make up the mixture of this Island should be left out.

Like I said, if it is an in-depth study of racial make-up, then mention it, but make sure you mention lots of other races which are far more important in the Dominican make-up first, like canarios (hugely important), arabs, moors, etc. Did he give them full billing?

I live in country where the history of my ancestors where left out and to this day some are trying to rewrite it as though it wasn't that bad.

I would be interested to hear more about that, maybe by email if you don't care to post on the open board.

Maybe you hang with a better class than I do, but I've met poor Dominicans who stated they have Taino ancestory. But it is not a myth and why would you deny that part of your history.

The more ignorant people are the easier they will swallow any bullshit fed to them by their rulers. That is how repressive regimes florish, whether of left, right, religious or whatever complexion. Your average Dominican (and Haitian for that matter) probably thinks Miami and Canada are in New York, Toronto is a two-hour drive from Santiago, and Japan and India are in China.

Successive reports have shown that the Dominican Republic has the lowest standard of education in Latin America, quite an achievement when the overall average isn't too great.

Of course there is Taino ancestry. I did not say it was a "lie". There is a difference between a "lie" and a "myth". A myth is something based on a tiny grain of truth which is, over time, hyped, twisted, distorted, glamorized, and sometimes seized on by unscrupulous people to dominate or swindle others. I would count most world religions in that definition.

For me, anyone who naively or unthinkingly peddles the "Taino ancestry" line without being specific is just adding another tiny pebble to the mountain of racism which obstructs the Dominican people from dragging themselves off the floor and leading decent lives in the democratic and prosperous nation which the DR could be.

If you think it is all an innocent romance you have only to look at the two people who most aggressively promoted it, Trujillo and Balaguer, two murderous racist dictators. They had their reasons.

Did she ever claim she was Taino? Too bad your princess didn't have Tanio in her but it doesn't mean that there are people on the Island that have Tanio ancestry.

That little anecdote was a joke against myself to show how gullible I was and how eager to join in the romance. I don't think she ever claimed it herself but she sure saved her denials until after I had finished buying the rounds.

[DMV]

DMV, I understand what you mean regarding he taint issue, but goats main focus has always been the black struggles in the Americas. the history regarding blacks in Latin America is rarely reported and often denied, sometimes just left out, like in Argentina. we have always heard about the European side. maybe a historian that focuses on the amerindian will create a documentary. there are plenty of clips to look at on YouTube.

I understand Knotty that wasn't the focus, I just wished he would have mention them. He mention the French and Spanish. Also maybe I should not have posted "many" Dominicans have Tanio features.

Have you seen the Documentary on the Cuba African connection? It's about how Cuba sent troops to a few African nations to help them liberate themselves from european imperialist.

[knotty]

I understand Knotty that wasn't the focus, I just wished he would have mention them. He mention the French and Spanish. Also maybe I should not have posted "many" Dominicans have Tanio features.

Have you seen the Documentary on the Cuba African connection? It's about how Cuba sent troops to a few African nations to help them liberate themselves from european imperialist.

yes i have. i'm a big history buff. got it from my roommate in college who had a crazy memory for history (now he's an ADA in Minnesota) so he seriously turned me on to a lot of it. Plus I minored in African American Studies so I eat this stuff up.

[DMV]

I would be interested to hear more about that, maybe by email if you don't care to post on the open board.

The more ignorant people are the easier they will swallow any bullshit fed to them by their rulers. That is how repressive regimes florish, whether of left, right, religious or whatever complexion.

Of course there is Taino ancestry. I did not say it was a "lie". There is a difference between a "lie" and a "myth". A myth is something based on a tiny grain of truth which is, over time, hyped, twisted, distorted, glamorized, and sometimes seized on by unscrupulous people to dominate or swindle others. I would count most world religions in that definition.


For me, anyone who naively or unthinkingly peddles the "Taino ancestry" line without being specific is just adding another tiny pebble to the mountain of racism which obstructs the Dominican people from dragging themselves off the floor and leading decent lives in the democratic and prosperous nation which the DR could be.

If you think it is all an innocent romance you have only to look at the two people who most aggressively promoted it, Trujillo and Balaguer, two murderous racist dictators. They had their reasons.

I will email you because I don't want this thread to go wayyy of course, It has enough already.

I agree with you 100 percent, the more ignorant a population is the more you can get over on them.

I didn't call you a lie and I'm not trying to say that people with Tanio ancestry are better than anyone else. I hope you get a chance to view the PBS special. He mentions Trujillo and how he tried to promote DR to the world as a "white". How he tried to "whiten" himself.

[weyland]

I will email you because I don't want this thread to go wayyy of course, It has enough already.

Thanks DMV. I would not have responded in the first place had I not already known you to have your heart in the right place.

I am not online a lot at present so don't be offended if you don't get a prompt response.

[Jimbo44]

I looked for it on cablevision here in NY, could not find it, thought it was on cl 13. I am glued to the Knick game and Yankee game anyway tho.

[hugrad95a]

Crazy story about Haitian Deportees...DAMN

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/...deportees.html

[papirazzi]

I looked for it on cablevision here in NY, could not find it, thought it was on cl 13. I am glued to the Knick game and Yankee game anyway tho.

DUDE it was on chanel 13@ 8pm

[papirazzi]

That was a good show!!! alot of information...and a big starting board for a person to dig deeper into the history, Whether it's Haiti/Domincan Republic, Brazil, etc. I'm going to keep watching the series....

[Dick Dawson]

If you missed it, it'll re-air Thurs @ 12:30am and Sat @ 3pm in the NYC area on 13. Everywhere else, check here:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-lat...rica/schedule/