04/2011 - Ex Pats That Fall

[questner]

I have not yet seen even one business book open. Show me the numbers. Show me ROE, cash flow etc. on real operating leveraged businesses, not laundromats, leases or real estate rentals.

[Westy]

Damn -- I can see the whole temptation of running a "dream business" in Tropical Paradise. It might resemble Herman Wouk's Don't Stop The Carnival ... which, I must confess, I haven't read; but the reviews suggest that it mirrors the situation of being a beach-bar baron in a third-world tropical resort town, like Sosua in the DomRep.

I would rather model my retirement-life on Seville, as he used to represent himself ... living on my pension (as he did, or does), and occasionally "employing (him)self" in an artistic pastime that benefits not only the "jeune filles" that he barbers, but the monger-population of Sosua at large.

[JDR]

Damn -- I can see the whole temptation of running a "dream business" in Tropical Paradise. It might resemble Herman Wouk's Don't Stop The Carnival ... which, I must confess, I haven't read; but the reviews suggest that it mirrors the situation of being a beach-bar baron in a third-world tropical resort town, like Sosua in the DomRep.

I would rather model my retirement-life on Seville, as he used to represent himself ... living on my pension (as he did, or does), and occasionally "employing (him)self" in an artistic pastime that benefits not only the "jeune filles" that he barbers, but the monger-population of Sosua at large.

No way am I moving to a place to make $1,000 or less a month while working 70 hours a week.

[JDR]

I have not yet seen even one business book open. Show me the numbers. Show me ROE, cash flow etc. on real operating leveraged businesses, not laundromats, leases or real estate rentals.

Guys that know about that would never open there.

[JDR]

I am with Jimmy....I think he was referring to businessess not just living on a pension. There is HUGE difference between the 2...

98% of businesses by ex-pats in Sosua have failed....lol..maybe that is high but not by much....

How many businesses actually work out in Sosua?? - the Italian in New Garden is about it.

I would agree any body that has a penison or source of income is going to make it in a foreign country....But if you had to JUST rely on working or running a business that percentage goes WAY down....

How many times we see some sick ex pat asking for help with medical expenses?

[JDR]

wow just saw this thread, started in 2011! I know many ex-pats myself Included 98% is a crazy number and is nowhere true in my experiences, of course some do better than others, but that is just life. Many have assimilated themselves so well, you would never know about them, they are living their lives happily. Of course many that don't make it, never should have tried in the first place, they couldn't make it where they were before, so why would you think they could make it in a foreign country? Losers are losers, no matter where they move, sorry to be so blunt but that is the reality.

I would say that in my experiences about 85% if not slightly more make it, those who don't, weren't seriously someone who you would consider being able to make it anywhere. I know so many ex-pats living successfully, here that it is not even funny, and that includes Europeans, Canadians etc., I will continue to read this thread, to read what has been said, but in my opinion, this is not a serious topic, and reading 98% will fail, I am just scratching my head

I have just read the first two, responses and am already amazed! But continue..........

You have a pension and if I recall, you worked 12 or more hours a day to succeed?

[PapiQueRico]

I wonder how many of the guys who fail in business in new countries would have also failed in their own countries? How many of them have real knowledge and experience in running a hotel or restaurant or bar when they start their place in Sosua or Boca or MDE?

Small biz is tough everywhere. The mistake many make is in thinking that because they come from relatively wealthy countries they are better prepared than locals in third world countries. Most likely their only advantage, and it is a big advantage, is that they are probably better capitalized than the locals starting out.

[BlueDevil]

I'm in my 5th year of living in Colombia. And like I tell every prospective ex-pat thinking about Colombia, "If I had to earn a living here, I would not be living here." Convoluted governmental requirements, whimsical business practices and an unpredictable market that is hard to figure out are among some of the reasons I would not venture into this territory. And for those thinking that they will cater to an ex-pat or foreign tourist crowd, there just is not enough of them here to "vale la pena." Of the few ex-pat businesses that I know of, its the Europeans who have been most successful... the dyed in the wool North American gringos not so much. Perhaps, Europeans are more flexible in their approach to business and life in general, and adapt to their new countries better than most gringos. Gringos like to critique and change things, rather than accept and conform.

[Hunter]

I'm in my 5th year of living in Colombia. And like I tell every prospective ex-pat thinking about Colombia, "If I had to earn a living here, I would not be living here." Convoluted governmental requirements, whimsical business practices and an unpredictable market that is hard to figure out are among some of the reasons I would not venture into this territory. And for those thinking that they will cater to an ex-pat or foreign tourist crowd, there just is not enough of them here to "vale la pena." Of the few ex-pat businesses that I know of, its the Europeans who have been most successful... the dyed in the wool North American gringos not so much. Perhaps, Europeans are more flexible in their approach to business and life in general, and adapt to their new countries better than most gringos. Gringos like to critique and change things, rather than accept and conform.

i.e. Bug

[yayow]

You have a pension and if I recall, you worked 12 or more hours a day to succeed?

True that, but I opened the business for a specific reason, no one never really understood that, I was almost begged by a few to do it, I didn't need to, but once I did do it, I was going to give it my all. My problem was an ex, I fore saw opening it for my daughter and in a couple of years giving it to her when it would be basically running itself, and only a beach bar, closing at night fall, like what the majority do on the beach, that would have been very simple and inexpensive to operate. Reason why I originally hired the ex as a manager . But her hatred of me and jealousy of the sexy chicas working there, caused me to fire her, which caused many more problems.

The Duarte bar, again a second thought, where the guy who was my ex partner wanted to get involved, I said no originally because I knew what it would entail, and I knew I didn't want to nor could I invest that amount of time and effort, plus I didn't need to do it. After promises from him and begging by others , I did it. Again when promises weren't met, I had to get rid of him, and go it alone which caused me to work those hours, because I wasn't going to allow it to fail.

So next step was to sell and get back to my life, without losing money, and of course once you make that decision it takes time to find the right buyer. It is a process. So my odyssey is more complex than you know, but not so different than many others. Was an interesting experience and I learned a lot. Actually have a few feelers out for another place, but in the capital not in a resort town, told my girlfriend if we are still doing well, may put up the start up money, and put her into something, so she can make it, and depend on herself. If I decide to do that, my involvement would or should be limited to the start up phase.

[whynotme]

No way am I moving to a place to make $1,000 or less a month while working 70 hours a week.

I don't get out of bed for less than $1,000

[weyland]

Gringos like to critique and change things, rather than accept and conform.

I am aware of the origin of the word "gringo" but in the DR all non-latin whites are called "gringos". And North American and European blacks too, I believe. Presumably not the case in Colombia? Not sure about other Latin countries.

[el_papi_chew_low]

You have a pension and if I recall

I know guys get tired of people talking about the way things used to be, especially when it comes to places like Sosua and Rio. In that same regard, many don't understand what a great thing a pension is and what it allows because they are much less common now, especially in the private sector. Not having to think about making money while living in another country makes a HUGE dif. Of course people have other sources of income and saving, but I would think the overwhelming percentage of expats living in places like the DR are doing so on a pension, but I could be wrong. I agree with others in terms of not wanting to depend on Dominicans for income. After seeing guys get thrown in jail and kicked out of the country because of business dealings, I would not want to be on that radar. That's not why I'm here.

I think Señor Tranquilo bar would do well on the North Coast but I know it ain't gonna happen?

[XXX]

I know guys get tired of people talking about the way things used to be, especially when it comes to places like Sosua and Rio. In that same regard, many don't understand what a great thing a pension is and what it allows because they are much less common now, especially in the private sector. Not having to think about making money while living in another country makes a HUGE dif. Of course people have other sources of income and saving, but I would think the overwhelming percentage of expats living in places like the DR are doing so on a pension, but I could be wrong. I agree with others in terms of not wanting to depend on Dominicans for income. After seeing guys get thrown in jail and kicked out of the country because of business dealings, I would not want to be on that radar. That's not why I'm here.

I think Señor Tranquilo bar would do well on the North Coast but I know it ain't gonna happen?

Although I already have an idea on this,,,,,

I was wondering what your opinion would be,,, on the amount needed on a monthly pension to live decently there ??

Also, what would be the minimum " Budget " amount needed to get by,,,,,,,,,

Just curious,,,,as my "pension eligible" days begin in March,,,,,,,,,,,

I know these amounts vary depending on how you want to live,,,and where you want to live,,,,,,

[el_papi_chew_low]

Although I already have an idea on this,,,,,

I was wondering what your opinion would be,,, on the amount needed on a monthly pension to live decently there ??

Also, what would be the minimum " Budget " amount needed to get by,,,,,,,,,

Just curious,,,,as my "pension eligible" days begin in March,,,,,,,,,,,

I know these amounts vary depending on how you want to live,,,and where you want to live,,,,,,

I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I'm not living off of a pension so others with a pension may want to weigh in on this. As you know, it depends on your lifestyle and where in the DR you chose to live.

Others may feel differently and this is not how I live, but I think a person could live on $1,000 a month in certain parts of the DR. I know a guy that probably lives off a budget like this.

If you live in Santo Domingo, you can go through money pretty fast because there is much more there and things are more expensive so your budget would probably be much more than a G a month, but others that live in SD may want to weigh in on this.

I also feel like food, in general, is a lot more expensive than I anticipated, but I like to consume a lot of imports like almond milk, organic spinach etc.

Whatever your aftertax pension is, you can probably find a lifestyle that fits your budget here.

[camaro1257]

Although I already have an idea on this,,,,,

I was wondering what your opinion would be,,, on the amount needed on a monthly pension to live decently there ??

Also, what would be the minimum " Budget " amount needed to get by,,,,,,,,,

Just curious,,,,as my "pension eligible" days begin in March,,,,,,,,,,,

I know these amounts vary depending on how you want to live,,,and where you want to live,,,,,,

My first few months I spent way too much money between maintaining my US home and going back and forth to the US frequently. Now that I am settled for the past couple of months I am averaging $2500.00 a month, if I can keep that figure I will be very happy...damn I have friends that spend that in a week or two vacation...lol!

[BlueDevil]

I am aware of the origin of the word "gringo" but in the DR all non-latin whites are called "gringos". And North American and European blacks too, I believe. Presumably not the case in Colombia? Not sure about other Latin countries.

Yes, most Colombians make a distinction between Gringos and Europeans. Any white person living north of the Rio Grande in North America is automatically considered a gringo. A German, Frenchman, Brit, Italian, etc. is a European. Colombians also group people according to race... regardless of their origin, citizenship or residence. For better or for worse, stereotyping is practiced freely in Colombia. It is what it is in Colombia. Being "gringo" evokes a degree of passion in Colombians... and, not always good. Colombians react towards Europeans in a more neutral (somewhat positive) manner.

Normally, when a Colombian starts prying into my business, and wants to know where I'm from, we tell him or her that I'm a "citizen of the world" with German and Costa Rican bloodlines. That usually disarms them. They may even ask me to say a few words in German... so I rattle off a few sentences and they smile and say, "Muy bien." When we moved out of the city last year to a cool little pueblo not too far from the airport, we rented a house in a brand new development. After we found what we were looking for, my wife (a paisa) asked about the lease requirements. Our agent told us straight-up that the agency did not like renting to gringos. My wife convinced our agent to give me the benefit of the doubt, and she accepted our application. The next day, we hand-carried a written vouch on my behalf from a highly-respected client of the agency. It was a slam dunk, and our lease was approved.

[Westy]

My first few months I spent way too much money between maintaining my US home and going back and forth to the US frequently. Now that I am settled for the past couple of months I am averaging $2500.00 a month, if I can keep that figure I will be very happy...damn I have friends that spend that in a week or two vacation...lol!

That's the point of a vacation. I'm only there a week or two, and I want to live it up - I'm staying in a hotel (at $70-100 per night) rather than leasing an apartment (for maybe $500-800 per month). I'm eating all my meals at restaurants, rather than cooking for myself. If I want a car, I'll have to rent it by the day; if I don't, I'll take cabs and they can be expensive. Then add in "entertainment expenses," and I'm buying a lot of "entertainment" because I'm only in Hooker Heaven for the week (or two), then it's back to Sex Prison till the next trip ... and so forth, and so on. And I'm spending even more than the average vacationer, what with me getting "tanked" in the mornings and afternoons, too ...



I know that I wouldn't live in the DR the way I vacation in the DR; it would be much the same life as I live now, though of course I'd spend more time on the beach and less time on the computer.

[The Sage]

A basic budget of $1,800 per month would work in Sosua provided you brought a vehicle for cash. That would include about $400 a month in drinking expense. Everything above that point would be the cost of pussy which cold be substantial. Even if your getting it in for 2000 pesos TLN you could easy spend $1000 - $1500 a month on pussy.

[JDR]

A basic budget of $1,800 per month would work in Sosua provided you brought a vehicle for cash. That would include about $400 a month in drinking expense. Everything above that point would be the cost of pussy which cold be substantial. Even if your getting it in for 2000 pesos TLN you could easy spend $1000 - $1500 a month on pussy.

I don't understand why its 2,000 if you live there.

They have down time. Take that??