Los Charamicos development, a planner's conception - copy job

[Westy]

Click to see pic (http://www.infiniti-blu.com/images/poolview.gif)
Hugrad, that looks like an "architect's conception" of the sort of development that any town manager would love to see being built in their district.

BTW, I did find some more "master plan" images on DR1 - let's see if ISOC will let me post the URL:

http://www.dr1.com/forums/real-estate/72612-master-plan-puerto-plata-sosua-cabarete.html

Here's an image of the plans for Los Charamicos:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc79/RockySosua/MstrPlan7.jpg

All that stands in the way is "the image of Sosua" - and a barrio full of pobrecitos who might learn their families never had "legal title" to the land under their shacks, and they'd been "squatters" for generations. Very sad. But the law has to be upheld. :rolleyes:

With the real-estate tax money, the corporate-tax money, the assets-tax money, the fees and other income that a development like this could bring in to Sosua - do you really think that The Powers That Be would see our mongers' money, in comparison, as anything more than a fart in a whirlwind? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

(There would be losers, of course: the 'squatters' of Los Charamicos, and the chicas pobrecitas who get their incomes from the monger's dollars. But you know what "The Family" says about omelettes and eggs.)

I acknowledge that a "master plan" doth not a development make, until the bulldozers rumble in. And I doubt very much if any ground-breaking will take place until the investors see Sosua as "cleaned up." So the pressure is now on Politur - they're putting their pressure on the chicas - and, well, we shall see.

[Jimmydr]

So who will buy all this stuff. With many 1,000's of houses and apartments for sale in the US from $50,000 and up, who will buy all that new construction in Sosua?

[Westy]

So who will buy all this stuff. With many 1,000's of houses and apartments for sale in the US from $50,000 and up, who will buy all that new construction in Sosua?
A rhetorical question? You could, perhaps, poke a hole in my speculations with that. Or, well, not my speculations, but those of the speculators who (I envision) are speculating in Sosua land.

Is Sosua limited to reaching for the USA market? I wish I'd gotten a photo of the bilingual "Se Vende" placard (Spanish/Russian) on the abandoned bar across from Scuba Elite, last October; it would help make my point about this. Euros, British sterling, Russian rubles, even Chinese renminbi can be exchanged into Dom Rep pesos just as conveniently as the ol' Yankee Dollah.

Pardon my asking where you live - no, I won't even ask that. But I will ask if you've ever been tempted by the notion of living in an endless-summer "tropical paradise" like the one these developers are trying to depict in their plans for a "new revitalized Sosua"? Plenty of people do have that dream, and it's certainly not limited to people in the USA. Ask Peter at La Passion, or Wilifred at the New Garden, or any of the big blond tourists you might hear on the streets of Sosua, speaking something guttural and Cyrillic.

There are people throughout all the northern lands, who "get sick of winter" and dream of a tropical retreat like this. And there are speculators who figure that "if we build it, someone will buy it." They don't care if it's Joe Six-Pack from Milwaukee, Baron von Gottmarks from Bavaria, Boris Bigrubles from Pinsk, or Fu Manchu's grandson Charlie Manchu from Nanjing, as long as their credit is good and so is their passport.

Let me repeat, this is sheer speculation until the bulldozers rumble in. But I believe it 'sure looks good' to anyone who figures they can make some money off it; from speculators to builders, to brokers, and yes to the political Powers That Be. Show them the money, it'll be like Dr. Pavlov is ringing their chimes.

[Jimmydr]

Is Sosua limited to reaching for the USA market? I wish I'd gotten a photo of the bilingual "Se Vende" placard (Spanish/Russian) on the abandoned bar across from Scuba Elite, last October; it would help make my point about this. Euros, British sterling, Russian rubles, even Chinese renminbi can be exchanged into Dom Rep pesos just as conveniently as the ol' Yankee Dollah.



The rest of the world is in recession as well. In addition, people that need to travel 10 hours or more are less likely to visit many times a year.

[Jimmydr]

Pardon my asking where you live - no, I won't even ask that. But I will ask if you've ever been tempted by the notion of living in an endless-summer "tropical paradise" like the one these developers are trying to depict in their plans for a "new revitalized Sosua"? Plenty of people do have that dream, and it's certainly not limited to people in the USA. Ask Peter at La Passion, or Wilifred at the New Garden, or any of the big blond tourists you might hear on the streets of Sosua, speaking something guttural and Cyrillic.





Having just been to Thailand, it seems its less of a ride to get to than DR.

For them, its Thailand vs DR.

[Hoseman]

It would not be the first time Foreingners took over people of colors land for Money.

[Jimmydr]

Let me repeat, this is sheer speculation until the bulldozers rumble in. But I believe it 'sure looks good' to anyone who figures they can make some money off it; from speculators to builders, to brokers, and yes to the political Powers That Be. Show them the money, it'll be like Dr. Pavlov is ringing their chimes.


Over the past decade, people have started construction, taken deposits and then walked away. You can see some of the building shells around.

[Westy]

The rest of the world is in recession as well. In addition, people that need to travel 10 hours or more are less likely to visit many times a year.
I am not assuming this development is being promoted, to the Power That Be, as being for 'visitors'. I think they'd be pushing the idea of people coming to the DR to live; retirees, pensioners, folks living out their 'golden years' on the income from their investments, all of that.

You are right about the worldwide recession, yes. But the kind of development in those 'Master Plans' would take place over years, and the investors would be gambling that people will want to retire to the sun, bringing their pensions and investment monies and international equivalents to 401K's, moving someplace where 'the good life' was inexpensive by their homelands' standards.

I haven't read much about the Dom Rep lately in, for example, International Living Magazine; but I have seen plenty about new developments in Mexico, Honduras, Panama, Ecuador, etc., etc. I don't doubt that there are Dominican real-estate speculators who are drawing parallels between these places and the North Coast. And I don't doubt there are people, not just in the USA but in Europe as well, who could be sold on The New Sosua as depicted in these Master Plans....

(I would like to hear more from some of our North Coast expats on the board. Robert? Weyland? Who else? Does this make sense to you?)

Thanks for the bandwidth -
Westy

[WickedWillie]

(I would like to hear more from some of our North Coast expats on the board. Robert? Weyland? Who else? Does this make sense to you?)

Thanks for the bandwidth -
Westy

Yes the 'plans' for Sosua and the whole Nth Coast make perfect sense and have been in existence for a long while now, maybe 5 plus years.

Will it ever happen, who the fuck knows, I sure don't.

One point about the DR as a retirement destination is that legal residency is very easy and cheap to obtain, unlike some of the other favoured destinations. This may well change negatively in the future.

Russians for example do not even need a visa to travel here, I think they do for Thailand.

Additionally there are no restrictions on foreign land ownership here, unlike for example Thailand.

[Westy]

Over the past decade, people have started construction, taken deposits and then walked away. You can see some of the building shells around.
As they say in the Navy, YARC, YARC, Sir ... ("You're Absolutely Right, Commander!")

Plenty of "big developments" have indeed gone bust, in the USA and internationally. Plenty of people have "bought off the plans" only to see their dream condo standing unfinished, pillars and slab floors, on a building lot that's gone to weeds and scrub.

The sight of that is enough to keep YOU and ME from "being quite so gullible." But there is new investment going on all around, all the same. Have you heard anything about the real estate boom in Fortaleza, Brazil?

I'm not saying this proposed make-over in Los Charamicos is going to take place, and certainly not that it's going to be successful. (Or that it's going to result in all those villas and condos being finished-out and sold to people who will live out their golden years in Sosua!) It's a long, long way, with many many pitfalls, between "This is what we plan to do" and "This is what we have done." But if the Mayor does happen to remember Juan Dolio, I believe the current crop of developers have a presentation in their bag that purports to prove "it can't happen here...."

By the way, I hope it's punctured and put to rest before they bring in the bulldozers.

[Jimmydr]

I am not assuming this development is being promoted, to the Power That Be, as being for 'visitors'. I think they'd be pushing the idea of people coming to the DR to live; retirees, pensioners, folks living out their 'golden years' on the income from their investments, all of that.

You are right about the worldwide recession, yes. But the kind of development in those 'Master Plans' would take place over years, and the investors would be gambling that people will want to retire to the sun, bringing their pensions and investment monies and international equivalents to 401K's, moving someplace where 'the good life' was inexpensive by their homelands' standards.

I haven't read much about the Dom Rep lately in, for example, International Living Magazine; but I have seen plenty about new developments in Mexico, Honduras, Panama, Ecuador, etc., etc. I don't doubt that there are Dominican real-estate speculators who are drawing parallels between these places and the North Coast. And I don't doubt there are people, not just in the USA but in Europe as well, who could be sold on The New Sosua as depicted in these Master Plans....

(I would like to hear more from some of our North Coast expats on the board. Robert? Weyland? Who else? Does this make sense to you?)

Thanks for the bandwidth -
Westy

After hitting 6 other third world countries, Dr ranks last for me.

[Hoseman]

Plus it is close to the U.S. that is why I chose here for now,when they open up Cuba lots of people from the U.S. will anxious to go there to see what is up.

[vewdew]

After hitting 6 other third world countries, Dr ranks last for me.


If I did 40 trips to the DR like you did I would be saying the same :)

[Jimmydr]

If I did 40 trips to the DR like you did I would be saying the same :)


I found someplace better. Once Mexico becomes safe, I will head over there more.

[Sidney]

A Sosua scenario: Paint a pretty picture. Developers will enhance the picture. Pay off the ''right people''. These people will assist the picture. Sell the idea to investors and speculators, Russian Mafia, Drug Dealers, foreign fools, etc.. If the developers have money, they will build or steal. --------------As others have pointed out, there are many flaws in this scenario! Another major flaw is the huge ''hangover'' from the real estate bust, all over the world.

[Westy]

Yes the 'plans' for Sosua and the whole Nth Coast make perfect sense and have been in existence for a long while now, maybe 5 plus years.

Will it ever happen, who the fuck knows, I sure don't.

One point about the DR as a retirement destination is that legal residency is very easy and cheap to obtain, unlike some of the other favoured destinations. This may well change negatively in the future.

Russians for example do not even need a visa to travel here, I think they do for Thailand.

Additionally there are no restrictions on foreign land ownership here, unlike for example Thailand.
According to The Passport Book, published by The Sovereign Society - "Unless you make it your residence and live there, we do not recommend that anyone acquire Dominican Republic citizenship, not even legally." The DomRep passport has a very cheesy reputation in the world.

However, it is easy to establish legal residency and naturalization. Foreigners can indeed buy & own real estate in the Dom Rep. Annual real-estate taxes are something like 1% of the assessed value of the property; that's $1500 yearly on a $150,000 home; and I don't doubt you could get a decent home for $150,000 in the Sosua area. (To support that, I took a look at the Century 21 realtor in Sosua. Yep; gated-community 'villas' with private swimming pools are in the $150,000 range in their Sosua listings. Not mansions, but nice-looking.)


A Sosua scenario: Paint a pretty picture. Developers will enhance the picture. Pay off the ''right people''. These people will assist the picture. Sell the idea to investors and speculators, Russian Mafia, Drug Dealers, foreign fools, etc.. If the developers have money, they will build or steal. --------------As others have pointed out, there are many flaws in this scenario! Another major flaw is the huge ''hangover'' from the real estate bust, all over the world.I hope I haven't given you the idea that I'm trying to deflect this point, or that I'm on the side of the developers!

Sidney, you pointed out the results of this sort of "development" in Juan Dolio. Did something like this happen in Boca Chica? Is something like this on the books for the bulldozed beaches along the Malecon of Puerto Plata?

My sympathies are with my fellow mongers and the chicas; the pobrecitos of Tablón, displaced to make room for the development across the river from Los Charamicos; and the poor schlubs of Los Charamicos who would be displaced to make that pretty development I brought in as the start of this thread. I think about something Robert said in his thread on expat life, about the DR having this 'reverse Midas touch' in which everything is turned to shit. I would feel sorry for the many people who would "buy from the plan" and would lose out when everything fell apart.

[Westy]

Pardon me for dragging this over from "The Novela," but I think it belongs here too. It refers back to my statements at the top of this thread:

And how the law is upheld, interpreted, and enforced, depends upon many of variables. In the D.R. even the direction of the wind at the time could change the outcome.

If a gringo were to buy a piece of land by the sea for his retirement and then later a Dominican family decides to erect a structure and inhabits the property in his absence for 7 or more years, upon his return when he would try to reclaim the land and evict the interlopers he would be in for a very expensive legal fight in which he may very well not prevail due to what is known in the D.R. as squatters rights.

But on the other hand if the politically connected want to eject families that have homesteaded the land for half a century or more and in some cases for 2 + generations then as you have unequivocally stated the law will be rigorously upheld and those inhabitants together with their squatters rights can both go to hell.

I doubt if any of us are thinking of buying property in Sosua; we probably know better ...

The biggest question for us is more likely to be, how is this going to affect our pursuit of poontang?

[Sidney]

According to The Passport Book, published by The Sovereign Society - "Unless you make it your residence and live there, we do not recommend that anyone acquire Dominican Republic citizenship, not even legally." The DomRep passport has a very cheesy reputation in the world.

However, it is easy to establish legal residency and naturalization. Foreigners can indeed buy & own real estate in the Dom Rep. Annual real-estate taxes are something like 1% of the assessed value of the property; that's $1500 yearly on a $150,000 home; and I don't doubt you could get a decent home for $150,000 in the Sosua area. (To support that, I took a look at the Century 21 realtor in Sosua. Yep; gated-community 'villas' with private swimming pools are in the $150,000 range in their Sosua listings. Not mansions, but nice-looking.)

I hope I haven't given you the idea that I'm trying to deflect this point, or that I'm on the side of the developers!

Sidney, you pointed out the results of this sort of "development" in Juan Dolio. Did something like this happen in Boca Chica? Is something like this on the books for the bulldozed beaches along the Malecon of Puerto Plata?

My sympathies are with my fellow mongers and the chicas; the pobrecitos of Tablón, displaced to make room for the development across the river from Los Charamicos; and the poor schlubs of Los Charamicos who would be displaced to make that pretty development I brought in as the start of this thread. I think about something Robert said in his thread on expat life, about the DR having this 'reverse Midas touch' in which everything is turned to shit. I would feel sorry for the many people who would "buy from the plan" and would lose out when everything fell apart.
Sorry, I know nothing about Boca Chica or Puerto Plata.

[Jimmydr]

Sorry, I know nothing about Boca Chica or Puerto Plata.


You know nothing about Puerto Plata?


Wow!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[whynotme]

with the world economy the way it is, it will never be finished in any of our life times at least.

[Sidney]

You know nothing about Puerto Plata?


Wow!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember the road being re-constructed for 5+years. A supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? For me, I try to avoid PP.

[Jimmydr]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember the road being re-constructed for 5+years. A supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? For me, I try yo avoid PP.


If I lived there I would stick with Puerto Plata, have a fw 100 amigas and never set foot in the town of Sosua.

[Sidney]

You know nothing about Puerto Plata?


Wow!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. I remember to road being re-constucted for 5+years. Supposedly polluted beach front. Does that help? I try to avoid PP.

[DMV]

All of this sounds like what happen with Juan Dolio in the south. Wasn't it hyped as the next Miami South Beach? Last time I was there it looked unfinshed and not many things to do. Does anyone know what happen?

[Jimmydr]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have driven through it. i remember to road being re-constucted for 5+years. Supoosedly polluted beach front. Does that help?


I can see why you are upset about the new sosua. The chicas will miss you once you are gone.:rofl:

[whatever]

The DomRep passport has a very cheesy reputation in the world.

It's not the passport it's the culture. No one in the world
wants a bunch of uneducated idiots (Dominicans) that
would fuck up cleaning a toilet.

[Westy]

It's not the passport it's the culture. No one in the world
wants a bunch of uneducated idiots (Dominicans) that
would fuck up cleaning a toilet.
Actually, Whatever, it's simpler and worse. The information I've got is from The Complete Guide to Offshore Residency, Dual Citizenship & Second Passports, by J.D. Bauman, J.D. (Doctor of Law), published by The Sovereign Society. The shorthand reference is "The Passport Book":

In 1999, a Russian national was arrested at London's Heathrow International Airport with a suitcase full of official Dominican Republic passports. In recent years, there have been several similar scandals in which quantities of DomRep passports were apparently sold by people with government connections. Although the stolen passports involved were official, the fact that they were being sold on the black market called into question everyone traveling on DomRep passports. The customs and immigration services of every major nation knew this and acted accordingly, much to the chagrin of the legal DomRep passport holders.

By some estimates, almost 10,000 passports were sold illegally, for as little as US$5000 and for as much as US$18000. The sellers claimed that the passports were valid for six years with automatic renewal at any DomRep Consulate. Needless to say, they were not renewed.

At the present time, there is no 'instant' DomRe[p passport program available, regardless of what you may be told. Yet, one continues to see numerous advertisements in international publications promising quick 'official' DomRep passports, always at inflated prices.

There are too many legitimate second passport possibilities without having to chance it with a DomRep passport. Stay away unless you make your second home or business there.
I acknowledge the propriety of Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence." There is incompetence galore in any DomRep official business, to be sure. But the passport thievery is beyond merely incompetent - and the point is that a Dominican Republic passport is worthless, anyways, to anyone who might want a second passport for travel.

I think the consensus here on ISOC is that the only thing a Dominican can do is fuck, suck, and collect their Western Union pension. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Nakom]

I can cetainly believe that someone is building a luxury resort in and around Sosua, and cleaning up the town will attract the kind of people with money to invest in it.

What I find hard to believe, is that they are going to relocate the barrio, clean out all the putas (working legally), and turn the Sosua area (shitty beach) in to the DR's Cayman Islands, complete with cruise ship harbors, ect.

Sosua might be a good location, but there are much easier places to buy raw land and not deal politically, and have to deal with a Barrio with 60-100K people in it. If there was that much intrest and money involved, you would think they would buy up most of Cabarete, or start fresh farther down the north coast. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.

That is unless the Dominican Government is planning on building the resort........ like Cuba.

Just my $0.02

[eldorob]

. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.


But these people are already invested in sosua. There are large projects underway and more in the planning stages. So my guess is that a few of them got together, decided the town was headed in the wrong direction, too dirty, too many putas, too many young gringos, crime increasing, ... and they helped get the mayor elected - financial backing, support, assistance, whatever.

LIke you said, you don't "get big money by being stupid" When you have a project in the works and things are going bad, you take control and make changes. You don't have any other choice. I think that's what happened in sosua.

No, Sosua will never be the Riviera, or the South of France. But when we come out of this rotten economy, and we will, there will be a pent up demand for warm-weather retirement homes and lots of vacation dollars sitting around. If the dom govt doubles or triples their advertising budget like they have talked about, people will check out the North Coast.

[Jimmydr]

No, Sosua will never be the Riviera, or the South of France. But when we come out of this rotten economy, and we will, there will be a pent up demand for warm-weather retirement homes and lots of vacation dollars sitting around. If the dom govt doubles or triples their advertising budget like they have talked about, people will check out the North Coast.



I read that there will be a new underclass in the US and we will never be back where we were.

[jose1234]

In the USA they have something called "Eminent Domain" where the government can take citizens land if the government can demonstrate the project provides the greater community with a benefit (public good reason) and the government provides just compensation as administered by the courts... It seems perfectly conceivable that the DR government will want to renovate or redevelop a piece of run-down land that could be developed into a marina, shopping area and maybe even a cruise boat port/destination that would provide income and jobs to the community. Weather after all the graft and mismanagement is done the project is completed is another story... Better to give the project to a foreign developer or group of them with their own engineers to build...

[Westy]

I can cetainly believe that someone is building a luxury resort in and around Sosua, and cleaning up the town will attract the kind of people with money to invest in it.

What I find hard to believe, is that they are going to relocate the barrio, clean out all the putas (working legally), and turn the Sosua area (shitty beach) in to the DR's Cayman Islands, complete with cruise ship harbors, ect.

Sosua might be a good location, but there are much easier places to buy raw land and not deal politically, and have to deal with a Barrio with 60-100K people in it. If there was that much intrest and money involved, you would think they would buy up most of Cabarete, or start fresh farther down the north coast. People with big money to invest, normally do not get big money by being stupid. They must see the problems they will encounter, and have researched similar (unfinnished and swindled) projects in the DR.

That is unless the Dominican Government is planning on building the resort........ like Cuba.

Just my $0.02
Pardon me, Nakom, but I believe you may have overestimated the population of Los Charamicos by at least an order of magnitude. The total population of Puerto Plata province is about 325,000 - that takes in all of the city of Puerto Plata, Sosua, Luperon, and more; an area of 1853 square kilometers or 715 square miles, about the size of the USA state of Rhode Island. How could even the Dominicans jam one-fifth of that population into a space of maybe 20 hectares (0.2 square km, or 50 acres)?

Maybe more like two or three thousand in Los Charamicos? Just speculating.

Please realize that I don't seek to minimize the situation and I certainly am not on the side of the developers. But there is a recent, local precedent for moving 'los pobrecitos' out of the way of a glittering new luxury development, in Tablón, isn't there? Promise them nice new homes, build them a few blocks of cheap apartments somewhere out of the way, and get on with "urban renewal" ...

BTW, raw land somewhere else would be easier and much more palatable, if we weren't talking of developing a harbor and a yacht basin, too. Take a look at Ocean World, up by Cofresi; they put a tremendous amount of work into that breakwater, to make a workable yacht harbor out of raw coastline. Cabarete would take a major engineering project like that, to create a comparable "parking lot for yachts". Sosua Bay is sheltered by comparison, even though Royal Carib's "Plunderer Of The Seas" (just kidding, RCCL) would have to moor out and send tourists in by shore-boats - as they do at Grand Cayman.

[mho]

Annual real-estate taxes are something like 1% of the assessed value of the property; that's $1500 yearly on a $150,000 home; and I don't doubt you could get a decent home for $150,000 in the Sosua area. (To support that, I took a look at the Century 21 realtor in Sosua. Yep; gated-community 'villas' with private swimming pools are in the $150,000 range in their Sosua listings. Not mansions, but nice-looking.)



This is also called Florida.

Most people are more interested in quality medical, police and city services for their "golden" years and not easy access to cheap whores.

[Nakom]

I stand corrected.

[Mr Hillbilly]

This is also called Florida.

Most people are more interested in quality medical, police and city services for their "golden" years and not easy access to cheap whores.


The thought of spending my ''Golden Years'' learning how to line dance and having Betty White gumm my pecker in Palm beach sounds tempting--No Thanks!

I will take my chances with stray bullet from El Flow or getting raped by FARC chics.

[eldorob]

The thought of spending my ''Golden Years'' learning how to line dance and having Betty White gumm my pecker in Palm beach sounds tempting--No Thanks!

.

About six years ago, I started agonizing that I wanted to go somewhere warm, but hated the thought of retiring to florida with all those nasty OLD people.

Then Jimmy showed me the light...

[Nakom]

I think I am going to join Prince and retire to Idaho and throw potatoes at Talis.

[Jimmydr]

In the USA they have something called "Eminent Domain" where the government can take citizens land if the government can demonstrate the project provides the greater community with a benefit (public good reason) and the government provides just compensation as administered by the courts...


Every country has this except in some countries they shoot everyone living on the land that they need.

[Ter319]

Plus it is close to the U.S. that is why I chose here for now,when they open up Cuba lots of people from the U.S. will anxious to go there to see what is up.

The possibility of Cuba opening up to US in the near future and definitely with in our life times could be a strong motivation. This could all be be them trying to save them selves and get as much money as they can before it becomes to late, regardless of what they actually do with it. I am not saying we as Americans are the only ones visiting DR or investing but I certainly would say that the amount of investment that would be heading to CUBA once it opens would be astronomical. We all been to DR, we know all the money coming in isn't going back in to the country tourist areas, only peoples pockets. As many members here can attest too, most of caribbean countries invest at least some of the money back into the tourist spots. As for the cruise ships coming, Im sure they will have their work cut out for them, cause I am sure most cruise ship destinations would not give up their islands as ports without a fight, but with the possibility of Cuba opening and the DR probably only a days sail away this could have more truth to it.

[Westy]

I was checking out the Sosua thread in "the other monger site" and someone new to the site posted the following message. I don't think he represents the investors who have the Mayor cleaning up Sosua, but his message does present a good example of the thinking and planning behind a major new resort....

I have been following the daily discussion (on Sosua) and thought I would put my perspective out here.

First, I am making my first trip ever to the DR this coming April. Why, you ask, should I have a comment on a place I have never been to? I own a company that specializes in resorts. We own several, usually buying a great site, dozing over the old and putting up new. We typically spend $100 (to) $150M US on a three year design / build. We do golf courses, marinas, hotels, tennis complexes, and beach resorts. Our latest acquisition is a ski resort with 4, 000 acres we purchased for $12M. We will spend another $150M to build all new facilities, add a village and make it a year round resort.

With that said there are companies always interested in finding new areas to develop. St Lucia, San Martin, and many other Caribbean destinations were all once sleepy little unheard of destinations until someone went in and put it on the map. There is always room for a new place. The last time I checked they are not making any new waterfront property.

There are many places with great vistas available for development. Infrastructure is important, and the airport in PP with daily nonstop service to cities like New York, are strong drawing cards. And yes Cuba is certainly on the near horizon.

One is the most critical factors in any development is the 'red tape'. Money is easy compared to the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies that impose layer after layer of requirements that can multiply the cost of any development. It certainly sounds like DR is still years behind in this area.

If you can buy prime oceanfront property cheap that is located so near to a major airport and the regulations are nonexistent, you have a winning combination. Part of my first visit will be look at what the possibilities are.

Creating 400-500 steady jobs, paying taxes, buying local products, and boosting the image of an area, all help a developing area. More development usually follows.

Things change but the trade will always remain. Despite the total transformation of 42nd Street in New York you can find a hooker with ease. Certainly we will miss how things once were. I think back to Viet Nam and Thailand and the fond memories I have of how they were during the war. I miss those days but I still have fun every time I return. You make your own fun. If you like what you do and are good at it, you will succeed.

I look forward to my visit and creating new memories with friends I have not yet made. Hope to meet all of you during our visit.


Food for thought....

[Mr Hillbilly]

http://www.sosuanews.com/index.php?id=2440&article=1 (http://www.sosuanews.com/index.php?id=2440&article=1)

Wikileaks reveals corruption scandal (http://www.sosuanews.com/index.php?id=2440&article=1)

It is currently keeping every body busy and you can read about it in every newspaper: Wikileaks published documents in which high government officials are accused of brutal corruption practices. These documents are from American investors who reported to the embassy, that with great promises and assurances they were persuaded to set up multi-million projects in the Dominican Republic. After this they were brutally put under pressure to pay bribes from thousands to millions of dollars to various officials. In one case, the (former) Director of the airports 'Aeropuertos Dominicanos Sigl XXI (Aerodom)', Mr. Andrés Van Der Horst, who, after the sale of the airports demanded all sorts of privileges for himself and his relatives (no export taxes and no costs for stocking shipments of agricultural products).

http://www.sosuanews.com/news_pictures/2010/12/12-25_wikileaks.jpg (http://www.sosuanews.com/news_pictures/2010/12/12-25_wikileaks.jpg) The Advent International document

Source: El Pais
Video: www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiViXUY-3k0&feature=player_embedded#at=112)
Image: www.monaga.net (http://www.monaga.net)



The company 'Forbes Energy' would invest 700 million U.S. dollars to build an ethanol plant. Part of the sugar factories in the country were closed for the fall in sugar prices, and should be re-opened and therefore could have returned to create jobs. The (former) Minister of Tourism Félix Jiménez asked, however, 10 million dollars (bribes) for a smooth implementation of the necessary permits.
Of course, these corrupt practices were brought under the attention of President Leonel FernÁndez, but this has not yet led to any action against the corrupt officials. On the contrary, Andrés Van Der Horst is now chairman of the PLD party, the party of the president. The former tourism minister was appointed by the President to be the Ambassador in the United States. But the United States were against it and threatened to deny him his visa.
The report, published by Wikileaks, also mentioned that some surveys were made under the Dominican population. It showed that 82% of the population have nothing against the corruption and that 67% of the respondents know family members or friends who have accepted the bribes. Thus these corrupt practices appear to be deeply rooted in the Dominican Republic.

[cervezalover]

Nothing new check out this article from listin diario concerning corruption in the world.
http://www.listin.com.do/las-mundiales/2010/10/26/164133/Somalia-178-Canada-6-y-RD-en-el-101

[Westy]

Nothing new check out this article from listin diario concerning corruption in the world.
http://www.listin.com.do/las-mundiales/2010/10/26/164133/Somalia-178-Canada-6-y-RD-en-el-101
"Oh, si, seguro, everybody's corrupt, so why not?"

The Transparency International 2010 Corruption Perception Index ranks the Dominican Republic at #101 among the 178 countries they track, on a scale where #1 is 'least corrupt' (Denmark) and #178 is "most corrupt" (Somalia). By comparison, Haiti is #146, and the USA is tied with Belgium at #22.

If you're ready to play the games, Mr. Bigbuxx, you can take advantage of corruption to "fast-track" your projects and get all kinds of favorable terms for your business. However, you better watch carefully to make sure your "bought legislators" stay bought. If their price goes up too much, you may be leaving a lot of expensive bare concrete where you meant to have a luxury resort.

Or, on a more personal level, scaled to our perceptions -

http://news.insearchofchicas.org/forum/imagehosting/205584d19242e277d3.gif