Haiti & the Dominican Republic: An Island Divided (Full Episode/Black in Latin Am.)

[joeysterr]

"In the Dominican Republic, Professor Gates explores how race has been socially constructed in a society whose people reflect centuries of inter-marriage, and how the country’s troubled history with Haiti informs notions about racial classification. In Haiti, Professor Gates tells the story of the birth of the first-ever black republic, and finds out how the slaves’s hard fight for liberation over Napoleon Bonaparte’s French Empire became a double-edged sword."

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/featured/haiti-the-dominican-republic-an-island-divided-watch-full-episode/165/

[naptime]

sweet. and it's on tommorrow too! i just set it to record!

thanks.


and next tuesday is the other one.

Cuba: The Next Revolution

A tour of Cuba explores its culture, religion, politics and music and how they are linked to slave labor imported to work in the sugar industry during the 19th century. Also: race and racism since the 1959 revolution led by Fidel Castro.

and the following two weeks.

Brazil: A Racial Paradise? In Brazil, Professor Gates delves behind the façade of Carnival to discover how this ‘rainbow nation’ is waking up to its legacy as the world’s largest slave economy.

Mexico & Peru: A Hidden Race In Mexico and Peru Professor Gates explores the almost unknown history of the significant numbers of black people—the two countries together received far more slaves than did the United States —brought to these countries as early as the 16th and 17th centuries, and the worlds of culture that their descendants have created in Vera Cruz on the Gulf of Mexico, the Costa Chica region on the Pacific, and in and around Lima, Peru.

[DMV]

Thank you Sterr!!!

[knotty]

i love stuff like this, good looking. i just gotta remember when shit comes on so i won't forget. lucky i got a DVR.

[Hunter]

It always fascintates me with languages on the islands, south america etc...

You really get a sense of history...

Muthfuckin Spanish just tore everything up...fuckers ...making us learn Spanish.

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...

And the French colonies etc...

Jack Sparrow and the pirates :D

[Señor JDR of Medellin]

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...





Less hookers in the English speaking places going for much more money.

[knotty]

It always fascintates me with languages on the islands, south america etc...

You really get a sense of history...

Muthfuckin Spanish just tore everything up...fuckers ...making us learn Spanish.

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...

And the French colonies etc...

Jack Sparrow and the pirates :D
uhh...you forgot the Portuguese in that list.

[Hunter]

uhh...you forgot the Portuguese in that list.

This hot stripper up in Massacushettes starts rapping with me....

She says shes from Cape Verde...fluent in Portugeses....Off the coast of Africa...

Cape Verde - colonized by the Portugese....

Damn she was hot....great dance with extras :bigthumbup:

[knotty]

This hot stripper up in Massacushettes starts rapping with me....

She says shes from Cape Verde...fluent in Portugeses....Off the coast of Africa...

Cape Verde - colonized by the Portugese....

Damn she was hot....great dance with extras :bigthumbup:
tons of Cape Verdeans in Mass. I remember when I was in college and my boy from Boston would mention them to me, and i had no clue where they were from. Then as I noticed it was a island nation off the West Coast of Africa which i had no clue there was one. Beautiful place too, with some hot lookers.

[Jimbo44]

I saw the commercial last night as I was watching the Knick game. I still can not believe the Celtics won that game!!!! What channel is it on again??

[Jimbo44]

never mind, i see it is on PBS, which is 13 here on LI for Cablevision.

[weyland]

I would be very grateful if someone could record the Haitian program for me on DVD (to keep or to borrow) and bring it to the DR their next trip.

[Dick Dawson]

It always fascintates me with languages on the islands, south america etc...

You really get a sense of history...

Muthfuckin Spanish just tore everything up...fuckers ...making us learn Spanish.

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...

And the French colonies etc...

Jack Sparrow and the pirates :D

You wouldn't think it but Jamaica at one point was a Spanish colony.

[givengo440]

FYI New York city is holding the ¡Si Cuba! festival

From March to June, fourteen New York institutions convene to celebrate the rich artistic vitality of Cuba, presenting ¡Si Cuba!, a festival showcasing the diversity of Cuban culture from the traditional to the modern. Screenings of award-winning films; lively concerts of son, rumba, hip-hop, and more by musical legends and rising stars; intimate discussions with Cuban writers, musicians, and thinkers; dance performances, from the classical to contemporary; compelling visual art exhibitions; and more showcasing the creative spirit of Cuba in forms both old and new.

go to http://sicuba.org/en for information. I am going to check it out this weekend.

[TC]

It always fascintates me with languages on the islands, south america etc...

You really get a sense of history...

Muthfuckin Spanish just tore everything up...fuckers ...making us learn Spanish.

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...

And the French colonies etc...

Jack Sparrow and the pirates :D

Don't forget Brazil, which is Portuguese. Hundreds of years ago, a pope gave Brazil to Portugal, and most of the rest of South America to Spain.

And of course, the USA, which was discovered by an Italian explorer, sailing for Spain, and became a British colony. Go figure.

[Señor JDR of Medellin]

Don't forget Brazil, which is Portuguese. Hundreds of years ago, a pope gave Brazil to Portugal, and most of the rest of South America to Spain.

And of course, the USA, which was discovered by an Italian explorer, sailing for Spain, and became a British colony. Go figure.


Well they tried to take Santo Domingo and lost so they didn't want to go home empty handed so they took Jamaica and from there, they took North America.

[TC]

Well they tried to take Santo Domingo and lost so they didn't want to go home empty handed so they took Jamaica and from there, they took North America.

Was this the same year that Weyland got off the ship?

[Jimmydr]

Was this the same year that Weyland got off the ship?


he came later.

[knotty]

bringing this up, reminds me of this documentary that still has not come out yet because of funding. i hope it makes the light of day because this looks good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyZc5RR5yc

and site
http://www.afrolatinos.tv/index.php

[joeysterr]

bringing this up, reminds me of this documentary that still has not come out yet because of funding. i hope it makes the light of day because this looks good.
YouTube - Afrolatinos Documentary 2011 Promotional video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyZc5RR5yc)

and site
http://www.afrolatinos.tv/index.php

Damn me too:iconTU: Africans in Latin America. A true untold story!

[joeysterr]

I would be very grateful if someone could record the Haitian program for me on DVD (to keep or to borrow) and bring it to the DR their next trip.

About that Weyland, the full video episode was available live all night last night. Was anybody else able to see it? Maybe they took it off the website since it is playing tomorrow night

[DEPUTY DAWG]

This is very good info!!!! Thanks for the heads up Joeysterrrrr!!!!! I would've missed it

[DMV]

About that Weyland, the full video episode was available live all night last night. Was anybody else able to see it? Maybe they took it off the website since it is playing tomorrow night

I watched it this morning from the link you posted. It was very informative. Although the objective was the history of Dominicans and Haitians, I wish he would have at least mentioned the Taino Indians. Their features are seen in a lot of Dominicans.

[hugrad95a]

http://news.insearchofchicas.org/forum/showthread.php?t=320161&page=2

I try to post interesting non monger stuff about the DR..

[hugrad95a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJJQdNR0R34

[lobonegro]

Thanks for this link....it'll give some people a lil more insight...mainly todays Latino's in America

[weyland]

I wish he would have at least mentioned the Taino Indians. Their features are seen in a lot of Dominicans.
Do you believe in the tooth-fairy as well?

Most Amerindian features you occasionally see in Dominicans derive from much later immigrants from mainland Latin America. On one of my earlier trips, before I knew shit, my then girlfriend took me to meet a neighbour. I was astounded by her "pure Taino" appearance and everyone jumped enthusiastically on the bandwagon. After I had bought three or four rounds for half the barrio we were ready to declare her a national heritage treasure. A year later I found out she was half Peruvian and actually still had her late father's expired Peruvian passport.

The Taino component has always been largely a political myth promoted by successive Dominican regimes in an attempt to give the nation some sort of historical tradition, especially in contradistinction to, and denial of, the African component.

Of course it's a nice romantic story for upper-class and upper-middle-class Dominicans to peddle at dinner parties. Much more interesting and socially acceptable to say "my great, great, ... grandmother was a Taino princess (which kind of justifies my familiy's right to bleed the working people dry)" than "my blood is 10% African, many of my ancestors were slaves and I am far closer related to your average Haitian than I am to Tainos who died out in the 16th century".

All nations have these racist myths promoted for (usually evil) purposes. The Nazis were ace at it. When the British Empire was at the peak of its power and pomp in the Nineteenth Century the English were falling over themselves to trace their descent back to King Arthur (who, if he existed at all, certainly wasn't English and was hostile to the germanic invaders).

Of course a minute percentage of Dominican blood is Taino and there may be isolated villages where it is still concentrated enough to be visible (though nowhere near as many as propaganda claims) but scientific studies have shown that it is four times as prevalent among Haitians though less visible because of their strong African features. Dominicans conveniently omit that fact. Makes sense really, because most escaped African slaves would have interbred with the indigenous Amerindian population. There is a massive Amerindian element in vodou, the Haitian religion, and when Dessalines chose a name for the new republic he chose the Taino name "Ayiti" not a Spanish, French or African one, so he was trying to jump onto the same bandwagon.

So to get back to your original point. I haven't see this program, so if it was an in-depth study, then the Tainos should have been mentioned. But if, as I suspect, a brief overview then the author did well not to seem to give the issue an importance it does not merit.

[Hunter]

Of course it's a nice romantic story for upper-class and upper-middle-class Dominicans to peddle at dinner parties. Much more interesting and socially acceptable to say "my great, great, ... grandmother was a Taino princess (which kind of justifies my familiy's right to bleed the working people dry)" than "my blood is 10% African, many of my ancestors were slaves and I am far closer related to your average Haitian than I am to Tainos who died out in the 16th century".


Very good article I found from Miami Herald on this issue: Black Denial...

http://www.miamiherald.com:80/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html

[DMV]

Do you believe in the tooth-fairy as well?.

Yes I do, but tell me what about my statement set you off on this historical rant?

I stated that he should have mention them in his story. I don't believe a group of people that make up the mixture of this Island should be left out.
I live in country where the history of my ancestors where left out and to this day some are trying to rewrite it as though it wasn't that bad.


The Taino component has always been largely a political myth promoted by successive Dominican regimes in an attempt to give the nation some sort of historical tradition, especially in contradistinction to, and denial of, the African component.
Maybe you hang with a better class than I do, but I've met poor Dominicans who stated they have Taino ancestory. But it is not a myth and why would you deny that part of your history.

Many Black Americans claim they have Native Americans in the ancestory. Gates did another special that pointed out that many do not. As you stated it's a nice tale to pass on, but I don't think they are trying to deny any part of the history.


I was astounded by her "pure Taino" appearance and everyone jumped enthusiastically on the bandwagon.
Did she ever claim she was Taino? Too bad your princess didn't have Tanio in her but it doesn't mean that there are people on the Island that have Tanio ancestry.

[knotty]

DMV, I understand what you mean regarding he taino issue, but gates main focus has always been the black struggles in the Americas. the history regarding blacks in Latin America is rarely reported and often denied, sometimes just left out, like in Argentina. we have always heard about the European side. maybe a historian that focuses on the amerindian will create a documentary. there are plenty of clips to look at on YouTube.

[weyland]

I stated that he should have mention them in his story. I don't believe a group of people that make up the mixture of this Island should be left out.

Like I said, if it is an in-depth study of racial make-up, then mention it, but make sure you mention lots of other races which are far more important in the Dominican make-up first, like canarios (hugely important), arabs, moors, etc. Did he give them full billing?


I live in country where the history of my ancestors where left out and to this day some are trying to rewrite it as though it wasn't that bad.
I would be interested to hear more about that, maybe by email if you don't care to post on the open board.


Maybe you hang with a better class than I do, but I've met poor Dominicans who stated they have Taino ancestory. But it is not a myth and why would you deny that part of your history.
The more ignorant people are the easier they will swallow any bullshit fed to them by their rulers. That is how repressive regimes florish, whether of left, right, religious or whatever complexion. Your average Dominican (and Haitian for that matter) probably thinks Miami and Canada are in New York, Toronto is a two-hour drive from Santiago, and Japan and India are in China.

Successive reports have shown that the Dominican Republic has the lowest standard of education in Latin America, quite an achievement when the overall average isn't too great.

Of course there is Taino ancestry. I did not say it was a "lie". There is a difference between a "lie" and a "myth". A myth is something based on a tiny grain of truth which is, over time, hyped, twisted, distorted, glamorized, and sometimes seized on by unscrupulous people to dominate or swindle others. I would count most world religions in that definition.

For me, anyone who naively or unthinkingly peddles the "Taino ancestry" line without being specific is just adding another tiny pebble to the mountain of racism which obstructs the Dominican people from dragging themselves off the floor and leading decent lives in the democratic and prosperous nation which the DR could be.

If you think it is all an innocent romance you have only to look at the two people who most aggressively promoted it, Trujillo and Balaguer, two murderous racist dictators. They had their reasons.



Did she ever claim she was Taino? Too bad your princess didn't have Tanio in her but it doesn't mean that there are people on the Island that have Tanio ancestry.
That little anecdote was a joke against myself to show how gullible I was and how eager to join in the romance. I don't think she ever claimed it herself but she sure saved her denials until after I had finished buying the rounds. :)

[DMV]

DMV, I understand what you mean regarding he taint issue, but goats main focus has always been the black struggles in the Americas. the history regarding blacks in Latin America is rarely reported and often denied, sometimes just left out, like in Argentina. we have always heard about the European side. maybe a historian that focuses on the amerindian will create a documentary. there are plenty of clips to look at on YouTube.


I understand Knotty that wasn't the focus, I just wished he would have mention them. He mention the French and Spanish. Also maybe I should not have posted "many" Dominicans have Tanio features.

Have you seen the Documentary on the Cuba African connection? It's about how Cuba sent troops to a few African nations to help them liberate themselves from european imperialist.

[knotty]

I understand Knotty that wasn't the focus, I just wished he would have mention them. He mention the French and Spanish. Also maybe I should not have posted "many" Dominicans have Tanio features.

Have you seen the Documentary on the Cuba African connection? It's about how Cuba sent troops to a few African nations to help them liberate themselves from european imperialist.
yes i have. i'm a big history buff. got it from my roommate in college who had a crazy memory for history (now he's an ADA in Minnesota) so he seriously turned me on to a lot of it. Plus I minored in African American Studies so I eat this stuff up.

[DMV]

I would be interested to hear more about that, maybe by email if you don't care to post on the open board.

The more ignorant people are the easier they will swallow any bullshit fed to them by their rulers. That is how repressive regimes florish, whether of left, right, religious or whatever complexion.

Of course there is Taino ancestry. I did not say it was a "lie". There is a difference between a "lie" and a "myth". A myth is something based on a tiny grain of truth which is, over time, hyped, twisted, distorted, glamorized, and sometimes seized on by unscrupulous people to dominate or swindle others. I would count most world religions in that definition.


For me, anyone who naively or unthinkingly peddles the "Taino ancestry" line without being specific is just adding another tiny pebble to the mountain of racism which obstructs the Dominican people from dragging themselves off the floor and leading decent lives in the democratic and prosperous nation which the DR could be.

If you think it is all an innocent romance you have only to look at the two people who most aggressively promoted it, Trujillo and Balaguer, two murderous racist dictators. They had their reasons.


I will email you because I don't want this thread to go wayyy of course, It has enough already.

I agree with you 100 percent, the more ignorant a population is the more you can get over on them.

I didn't call you a lie and I'm not trying to say that people with Tanio ancestry are better than anyone else. I hope you get a chance to view the PBS special. He mentions Trujillo and how he tried to promote DR to the world as a "white". How he tried to "whiten" himself.

[weyland]

I will email you because I don't want this thread to go wayyy of course, It has enough already.
Thanks DMV. I would not have responded in the first place had I not already known you to have your heart in the right place.

I am not online a lot at present so don't be offended if you don't get a prompt response.

[Jimbo44]

I looked for it on cablevision here in NY, could not find it, thought it was on cl 13. I am glued to the Knick game and Yankee game anyway tho.

[hugrad95a]

Crazy story about Haitian Deportees...DAMN

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/03/20/world/americas/100000000733274/deportees.html

[papirazzi]

I looked for it on cablevision here in NY, could not find it, thought it was on cl 13. I am glued to the Knick game and Yankee game anyway tho.

DUDE it was on chanel 13@ 8pm

[papirazzi]

That was a good show!!! alot of information...and a big starting board for a person to dig deeper into the history, Whether it's Haiti/Domincan Republic, Brazil, etc. I'm going to keep watching the series....

[Dick Dawson]

If you missed it, it'll re-air Thurs @ 12:30am and Sat @ 3pm in the NYC area on 13. Everywhere else, check here:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/schedule/

[psriches]

Don't forget Brazil, which is Portuguese. Hundreds of years ago, a pope gave Brazil to Portugal, and most of the rest of South America to Spain.

And of course, the USA, which was discovered by an Italian explorer, sailing for Spain, and became a British colony. Go figure.WHAT?????:eek:

[knotty]

And of course, the USA, which was discovered by an Italian explorer, sailing for Spain, and became a British colony. Go figure.
Huh???? The USA was not discovered by an Italian explorer. Columbus never set foot on what is now known as the USA. plus, the only group that can really claim discovery were the Asians that crossed during the ice age which we know as native Americans. Ponce de Leon could be considered one of the first Europeans to set foot here.

[Nakom]

I watched this last night and I thought it was good. The overall gist of the thing is that the island of Hispaniola was discovered by Columbus and then later Napoleon followed. The French and Spanish sides split, however both brought in 100,000's of African slaves. The DR dismissed their African roots, claimed Spain as their 'mother land', became Roman Catholic, spoke Spanish, and then through out history tried to convince it's population that is was white. Haiti embraced its Africa heritage, practiced Voodoo, and started speaking Creole which is primarily a French and African mix.

I was talking to a chica one night in the DR and she asked what I was doing later. I told her I was meeting up with my friends Mike, Jack, Johnny, and Greg (names changed). She said to me "Black Greg", in a disrespectful tone. Greg was African American and from NY. She then asked me how I could hang out with that guy - like I was crazy. She then asked me if I like people from Haiti.

I told her it does not matter to me, Italiano, Frances, Africano, Chino - it makes no difference to me. She was shocked. She told me that all those are people are ok except for Africano's and Haitians. I put my arm next to hers (they don't call me the pale rider for nothing). I pointed to my arm and said blanco and pointed at her arm and said negro. She fucking flipped - saying we were the same and black Greg was different.

Before this incident, I had known her as a half way intelligent, fun, non loca, chica. Needless to say, that was the last time I ever spent any time with her. I asked her where she learned to think like that and she said from her Mom and at school. In the documentary last night they touched on the fact that racism towards Haitians has (and sometimes still is) taught in schools. Go figure - food for thought.

[el toro]

The play Platanos and Collard Greens was about Dominicans accepting or denying their African roots.

[alvinthefirst]

"Many Black Americans claim they have Native Americans in the ancestory. Gates did another special that pointed out that many do not. As you stated it's a nice tale to pass on, but I don't think they are trying to deny any part of the history."



I have my grandparents reservation papers, and went to Graduate School for free because of it even though my own birth certificate says African American . I was able to trace my family history directly to a slave who was freed and took up residence on a reservation in the Carolinas right before the Civil War. Never believe what you see in the media.
Most Indian tribes not only cohabitated and lived with slaves, The Cherokees and the Apaches owned slaves and just like the White Masters, often interbred with them.

So much for myths. Looks as if you're in the middle of spreading one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians_in_the_United_States

[DMV]

"Many Black Americans claim they have Native Americans in the ancestory. Gates did another special that pointed out that many do not. As you stated it's a nice tale to pass on, but I don't think they are trying to deny any part of the history."



I have my grandparents reservation papers, and went to Graduate School for free because of it even though my own birth certificate says African American . I was able to trace my family history directly to a slave who was freed and took up residence on a reservation in the Carolinas right before the Civil War. Never believe what you see in the media.
Most Indian tribes not only cohabitated and lived with slaves, The Cherokees and the Apaches owned slaves and just like the White Masters, often interbred with them.

So much for myths. Looks as if you're in the middle of spreading one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians_in_the_United_States


I'm happy you can trace your roots but it doesn't negate that many believe they have Native American ancestry but do not. As you posted many tribes cohabitated (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) with slaves. I wasn't trying to deny that some did. I thought that was clear. So what myth are you talking about?

[greydread]

Huh???? The USA was not discovered by an Italian explorer. Columbus never set foot on what is now known as the USA. plus, the only group that can really claim discovery were the Asians that crossed during the ice age which we know as native Americans. Ponce de Leon could be considered one of the first Europeans to set foot here.

US History 101.

Ponce de Leon, Vasco da Gama, etc came about 35,000 years after the Koreans crossed the Bering land bridge (through China/ Russia) to become the first people in the Americas. Leif Erikson never made it past Newfoundland 500 years before Columbus never made it to North America at all.

Recent history has the Spanish, Portugese, Dutch French and English in North America trying to establish colonies, pretty much in that order. Most of the early tries failed.

Are we the only ones who watch NatGeo around here?

[knotty]

US History 101.

Ponce de Leon, Vasco da Gama, etc came about 35,000 years after the Koreans crossed the Bering land bridge (through China/ Russia) to become the first people in the Americas. Leif Erikson never made it past Newfoundland 500 years before Columbus never made it to North America at all.

Recent history has the Spanish, Portugese, Dutch French and English in North America trying to establish colonies, pretty much in that order. Most of the early tries failed.

Are we the only ones who watch NatGeo around here?
maybe....natgeo, discovery, pbs, and the history channel is among my favorites. As they say, "Knowledge is Power".

[uncle ruckus]

After seeing the documentary and reading this thread (and other threads in other DR forums) I almost feel like I have to comment to defend the DR point of view.

Obviously there is a race problem in the Dominican Republic. Just like there's a race problem in the United States and race problems in every single country around the world. The bottom line is that if there are differently colored skins within a continent, country, state, or city, there will be racism. Look at the prison population, educational statistics, income disparity levels, or almost any other metric to see the vast problems with race in the United States. I have an Italian friend whose family refuses to see her or her child because the father is black and the child is mulatto. Race problems are a reality around the world, not just in the DR.

That said, I think DR gets a disproportionate amount of criticism on the race question because people just can't understand how these black people refuse to accept or acknowledge that they're black. The reality is that most of us are not black, we are shades of brown. Almost every Dominican is a mulatto, and the generational mixing of mulattoes leads to the largest variety of shades of skin color in the planet. Skin color is much, much less of an issue in the DR than it is in the US or in many predominantly European countries, mainly because the difference between white/black is much greater than the difference between white/tan/light brown/brown/dark brown/black. In my example, I have a typical brown complexion (think like Leonel Fernandez) but my sister is light skinned blond, with "bad" hair and green eyes. My brother is a lighter skinned version of me. My uncle is black. My other uncle (Uncle 1's brother) is almost European. And my situation isn't unique, it's the norm. The huge intermingling of colors makes race almost irrelevant to most Dominicans. Peña Gomez is a good example. The man is revered by almost half of the country. The primary airport in the country is named after him and the fraud that prevented him from obtaining the Presidency almost led to a civil war until he had to personally tell his supporters to stand down. If race relations were as bad as portrayed, this man would not have been allowed to obtain the power he held.

I'll admit that at the highest level (maybe top 5%) of society, race is much more important because that's the only part of the population that cares about what part of Spain so-and-so's grandparents originally came from. If you look at the very very rich, they're almost exclusively European and their kids are taught at an early age that they are to marry into their class to keep racial purity. It's disgraceful, but it's true.

The Haitian problem is something altogether different. When you think of DR/Haiti, think of US/Mexico. Dominicans need their cheap labor, but want to refuse to acknowledge that they exist and refuse to provide to them the same rights that all other residents enjoy (sound familiar?). When there are too much of them, Dominicans complain that they're affecting the DR culture (oxymoron?) and that they're destroying the country (again, sound familiar?). Also, there's a prodigal son mentality with Haiti. DR feels like it's done everything right compared with Haiti. We are proud that with the exact same resources that Haiti has, we've built a semi-functioning society while across the border it's a Lord of the Flies type disgrace. For the same reason, we look down on Haitians for their irresponsibility in maintaining their country. It's the same way you would look down on your neighbor doesn't maintain their property. Just like your neighbor's carelessness can bring pests and lower your property values, Haiti's irresponsibility spreads its social ills to the DR. DR has enough problems to deal with without having to deal with Haiti's too. It's not about race, it's about the negative effect of Haitian disorder on DR. The problem is that every Haitian living in the DR then becomes a symbol and outlet for that frustration.

To close this out, let me put up the two extremes of Dominicans: #1 is a businessman in Santiago whose great-grandparents immigrated from Spain. The guy is my father's uncle: http://uploads.blogia.com/blogs/c/cr/cri/cristoreypuntocom/upload/20090128195800-manuel-a-u.jpg
The second is the aforementioned Peña Gomez. This image is hanging in my grandfather's house next to the obligatory image of Jesus. My grandfather revered both almost equally (maybe Peña Gomez more). http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WeLnCUHVDUQ/TFN23Af-FoI/AAAAAAAADe4/LpSGcRdvfqs/s400/foto+pe%C3%B1a_290x339.jpg

Everything in between those two is a Dominican.

[weyland]

Excellent post, Uncle Ruckus.

[hugrad95a]

I watched this last night and I thought it was good. The overall gist of the thing is that the island of Hispaniola was discovered by Columbus and then later Napoleon followed. The French and Spanish sides split, however both brought in 100,000's of African slaves. The DR dismissed their African roots, claimed Spain as their 'mother land', became Roman Catholic, spoke Spanish, and then through out history tried to convince it's population that is was white. Haiti embraced its Africa heritage, practiced Voodoo, and started speaking Creole which is primarily a French and African mix.

I was talking to a chica one night in the DR and she asked what I was doing later. I told her I was meeting up with my friends Mike, Jack, Johnny, and Greg (names changed). She said to me "Black Greg", in a disrespectful tone. Greg was African American and from NY. She then asked me how I could hang out with that guy - like I was crazy. She then asked me if I like people from Haiti.

I told her it does not matter to me, Italiano, Frances, Africano, Chino - it makes no difference to me. She was shocked. She told me that all those are people are ok except for Africano's and Haitians. I put my arm next to hers (they don't call me the pale rider for nothing). I pointed to my arm and said blanco and pointed at her arm and said negro. She fucking flipped - saying we were the same and black Greg was different.

Before this incident, I had known her as a half way intelligent, fun, non loca, chica. Needless to say, that was the last time I ever spent any time with her. I asked her where she learned to think like that and she said from her Mom and at school. In the documentary last night they touched on the fact that racism towards Haitians has (and sometimes still is) taught in schools. Go figure - food for thought.


How she could put her arm against your and say that you were the same color is crazy. Wow...

[Hunter]

Excellent post Uncle....that was really informative....

Did you watch the Cuba episode??

I have only been to Cuba once but their is a definte divde in that country. The European cubans holding all the power positions etc. I noticed it. The Miami money coming into the country goes to the Europeans, etc.

The special brought out the point at some point in the 60s I believe Castro flooded Cuba with Spanish Europeans. This series has gotten me interested in history again. I gotta start reading those history books .

[knotty]

Excellent post Uncle....that was really informative....

Did you watch the Cuba episode??

I have onlyo been to Cuba once but their is a definte divde in that country. The European cubans holding all the power positions etc. I noticed it. The Miami money coming into the country goes to the Europeans, etc.

The special brought out the point at some point in the 60s I believe Castro flooded Cuba with Spanish Europeans. This series has gotten me interested in history again. I gotta start reading those history books .
It's the same thing they have done in many Latin American countries to "whiting" up the country because it was too dark.

[SrSuerte]

It would be nice to hear more about Belize and Guatemala. Belize especially.

[SrSuerte]

It always fascintates me with languages on the islands, south america etc...

You really get a sense of history...

Muthfuckin Spanish just tore everything up...fuckers ...making us learn Spanish.

Thats why Spanish is everywhere but Jamaica, Belize...English colonies...

And the French colonies etc...

Jack Sparrow and the pirates :D


Espanol speaking workers have been increasing their presence in Belize.

[hugrad95a]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0S6HTQI4

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0BQ4VMR1

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NEMVXYQP

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O6JDMX4J

[Hoseman]

"Many Black Americans claim they have Native Americans in the ancestory. Gates did another special that pointed out that many do not. As you stated it's a nice tale to pass on, but I don't think they are trying to deny any part of the history."



I have my grandparents reservation papers, and went to Graduate School for free because of it even though my own birth certificate says African American . I was able to trace my family history directly to a slave who was freed and took up residence on a reservation in the Carolinas right before the Civil War. Never believe what you see in the media.
Most Indian tribes not only cohabitated and lived with slaves, The Cherokees and the Apaches owned slaves and just like the White Masters, often interbred with them.

So much for myths. Looks as if you're in the middle of spreading one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians_in_the_United_StatesYou have too look at where and who all this info is coming from there were already people of color in America and South America no they did not all come over on slave ships anyone ever heard of Pangea? http://geology.com/pangea-continental-drift.gif

[Maretti]

...The special brought out the point at some point in the 60s I believe Castro flooded Cuba with Spanish Europeans...
I didn't notice this message before. People were immigrating to Cuba before Castro, after him, it was the other way around, as a matter of fact, after Castro, the black population started to grow.

[getrhythm]

You have too look at where and who all this info is coming from there were already people of color in America and South America no they did not all come over on slave ships anyone ever heard of Pangea? http://geology.com/pangea-continental-drift.gif

Not sure what your point is here, but if you're implying that there was anything remotely human around at the time before the continents split from the single land mass of Pangea, you're quite mistaken. In fact, as the link above shows, the New World and Old World continents had split off completely by the Cretaceous period, which was still well before our earliest ancestors walked the earth.

OTOH, it's a pretty safe bet that the only people in the New World prior to Columbus' arrival were native peoples that had in fact migrated from Asia, and nearly all the people of African descent that arrived over the first few centuries did in fact arrive on slave ships. That's not meant in any way to denigrate anyone's racial heritage - that's just the way it happened.

BTW - thanks to Hugrad for the links - enjoying this series a lot...

[Hoseman]

Not sure what your point is here, but if you're implying that there was anything remotely human around at the time before the continents split from the single land mass of Pangea, you're quite mistaken. In fact, as the link above shows, the New World and Old World continents had split off completely by the Cretaceous period, which was still well before our earliest ancestors walked the earth.

OTOH, it's a pretty safe bet that the only people in the New World prior to Columbus' arrival were native peoples that had in fact migrated from Asia, and nearly all the people of African descent that arrived over the first few centuries did in fact arrive on slave ships. That's not meant in any way to denigrate anyone's racial heritage - that's just the way it happened.

BTW - thanks to Hugrad for the links - enjoying this series a lot...Have you every seen one of those slave ships? How many you think could actually live under those conditions they were not really feeding then they could not move around could you imagine how many would die due to the spread on disease?Where did the Asians Come from?Who did you get your facts from?Who they hell wrote the books and provided all the info that you base your facts on?They teach you early on in school that when a Country was conquered they destroyed that countries history.

[Hoseman]

Not sure what your point is here, but if you're implying that there was anything remotely human around at the time before the continents split from the single land mass of Pangea, you're quite mistaken. In fact, as the link above shows, the New World and Old World continents had split off completely by the Cretaceous period, which was still well before our earliest ancestors walked the earth.

OTOH, it's a pretty safe bet that the only people in the New World prior to Columbus' arrival were native peoples that had in fact migrated from Asia, and nearly all the people of African descent that arrived over the first few centuries did in fact arrive on slave ships. That's not meant in any way to denigrate anyone's racial heritage - that's just the way it happened.

BTW - thanks to Hugrad for the links - enjoying this series a lot...There was no new world just a different country and Colubus set ougt to prove the world was round right:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Hoseman]

I am going to leave this subject alone it never gets any where.

[Corrado]

Talk about race is totally academic. There is only one race of human being on the Planet Earth, Homo Sapien Sapien. There are no other races of man on Earth apart from this one. There are however multiple ethnicity, and geo-cultural catgories of Homo Sapien. There are 7 types of biological classification. All Human Beings living on this planet today are in the same 7 types as everyone else.

Race is a social construct not a genetic one. The reality is that society focuses on skin color and makes it an issue...... so it becomes one.

[Hoseman]

Talk about race is totally academic. There is only one race of human being on the Planet Earth, Homo Sapien Sapien. There are no other races of man on Earth apart from this one. There are however multiple ethnicity, and geo-cultural catgories of Homo Sapien. There are 7 types of biological classification. All Human Beings living on this planet today are in the same 7 types as everyone else.

Race is a social construct not a genetic one. The reality is that society focuses on skin color and makes it an issue...... so it becomes one.Tell it like it is.

[DCIronman]

Hmm. I believe you're confusing race with species. I'm pretty sure that the term "homo sapien" refers to the species of human.

"Race" refers to slight genetic differences within the species. Strictly speaking.