12/2013 - STAY AWAY FROM AVIS!!!!!

[Corrado]

I was billed by Avis for damaging a rental vehicle (I did not). The vehicle was in poor mechanical condition when I got it, BUT the problems were internal and mechanical in nature so I could not tell when the vehicle was inspected. The vehicle stopped all mechanical operations on the road way, leaving me with no steering, brakes or headlights (at night, on mountain foot hills). When the mechanic came he went under the car and took something from underneath it saying "see, you wrecked it" :bs:.........The franchise ( or their thieving employees) attempted to bill my credit card without notifying me prior to assessing a bill or notifying me of the situation. My credit card company declined the charge as the transaction was not authorized and originated from an anonymous vender at the airport. The charge was attempted a second time originating from the Avis franchise. A fraud complaint was filed with my credit card company and The Avis corporate office as well as a dispute of the charges, because Avis did not treat it as fraud on the part of the franchise. I was told there would be an "investigation" of the matter. The matter was transferred to an Avis International Resolution Specialist. She notified me that based on the documentation that was provided to her that I owed U.S. $4,216.01. The documentation she provided as support...... the bill from the franchise itself, with no documentation of any investigation by her. The Avis Collection Department, is attempting to collect what the franchise erroneously claims I owe them. The Avis customer support and International Resolution departments have failed to guard their client (me) against the malicious and fraudulent business practices of their foreign franchises. At last tally Avis now fraudulently and erroneously asserts that the total sum of $5,660 is now owed. When hell freezes over and Trujillo returns to office............

[eastcoastallstar]

Corradoooooo :iconTU::iconTU::iconTU::iconTU:

[Hunter]

Did you decline the insurance when you rented it?

[Tonto4]

Holy shit! That is a nightmare. Good luck with all that. The car rental companies are all scammers, but that $5K+ makes me sick.

[Corrado]

Corradoooooo :iconTU::iconTU::iconTU::iconTU:

Clean out your voicemail inbox.....:rofl:

[Corrado]

Did you decline the insurance when you rented it?

Insurance, yeah, jajajajajajajajaja. Yes I opted for collision insurance, and my credit card provides coverage for rentals world wide. But if I did not damage the car, I am not liable, why should (would) insurance pay. Plus insurance fraud is a felony..... even in the DR, but stacking bullshit charges on my bill......... meh, not so much

[Corrado]

Holy shit! That is a nightmare. Good luck with all that. The car rental companies are all scammers, but that $5K+ makes me sick.

Thanks! You know thats how business is done sometimes in the DR.

[Hunter]

Insurance, yeah, jajajajajajajajaja. Yes I opted for collision insurance, and my credit card provides coverage for rentals world wide. But if I did not damage the car, I am not liable, why should (would) insurance pay. Plus insurance fraud is a felony..... even in the DR, but stacking bullshit charges on my bill......... meh, not so much

Do you have document that you accepted the insurance and paid for it? I cant see how Avis could come after you if you paid for the collision insurance. Be very careful relying on your credit card for auto insurance...lot of hidden things they don't cover. I always was told to take the collision insurance overseas.

[Guthrie]

Thanks for the info.
I will stay away from avis just for the principle of it.

[Sidney]

Agree, no Avis My Visa refused to fight them taking their side of the argument. Go Payless. Many rentals, never a problem !

[whynotme]

I rented a basic economy car last month on line from fox car rental at mia and paid online and when I went to pick it up I asked for a free upgrade:corky:

they said no but would give me a new camero convertible for an extra $15/day so I took it.:iconTU:
when I got my visa statement they not only billed me the original bill but the new revised bill with the extra charge as well:mad::eek:

after several emails they finally reversed the first online bill but if they did that on me I wonder how many times these charges slip thru the cracks:eek:


there was a documentary last winter about a budget car rental company in Vancouver billing everyone for a windshield (small crack in the lower section where no one would see it when picking up the car) and never changing them so they could keep billing:eek:

[Corrado]

Do you have document that you accepted the insurance and paid for it? I cant see how Avis could come after you if you paid for the collision insurance. Be very careful relying on your credit card for auto insurance...lot of hidden things they don't cover. I always was told to take the collision insurance overseas.

Check out my post, the dispute resolution person used the bill as proof that I owe them. Plus there was no collision, so they cannot file this with the insurance.......that would be insurance fraud. So nothing that I say, or any papers matters because the bill says I owe them. The bill is the sole foundation for the claim that I owe them. I am not relying on the credit card, there was no collision.........so I can't file......same position as Avis.....That would be insurance fraud.

[Hunter]

Check out my post, the dispute resolution person used the bill as proof that I owe them. Plus there was no collision, so they cannot file this with the insurance.......that would be insurance fraud. So nothing that I say, or any papers matters because the bill says I owe them. The bill is the sole foundation for the claim that I owe them. I am not relying on the credit card, there was no collision.........so I can't file......same position as Avis.....That would be insurance fraud.

Sorry if I am being thick.

But the mechanic says you "wrecked it"..... so that is part of the no fault collision insurance you purchased from them. That protects you no matter what happens to the car.

[whynotme]

Sorry if I am being thick.

But the mechanic says you "wrecked it"..... so that is part of the no fault collision insurance you purchased from them. That protects you no matter what happens to the car.
sounds like the motor seized up and they are trying to say he wrecked it:rofl:
poor maintenance on there part or the factory warranty would have covered it

he better demand an itemized bill and go from there after consulting with a dealer in the usa about what they say went wrong and if they would/should cover it :iconTU:

even in cuba when a fuel pump failed they brought me another rental and didn't charge me:iconTU:

[Corrado]

Sorry if I am being thick.

But the mechanic says you "wrecked it"..... so that is part of the no fault collision insurance you purchased from them. That protects you no matter what happens to the car.

Not thick, you just don't get what is happening.

It is a hustle. No one believes that the car was wrecked. They want cash money from me. They do not want to file a false insurance claim with whoever covers them. There was no wreck, they know this. They set me out with a bad car they knew would put me down, so they could fabricate charges...... hoping I would just pay.

No wreck = no police report= no insurance pay out.

I really do not care about the cock suckers at the franchise. My real problem is that the corporate office in the U.S. supports this bullshit and backs the franchise even though there is not a shred of evidence from them.

[Hunter]

sounds like the motor seized up and they are trying to say he wrecked it:rofl:
poor maintenance on there part or the factory warranty would have covered it

he better demand an itemized bill and go from there after consulting with a dealer in the usa about what they say went wrong and if they would/should cover it :iconTU:

even in cuba when a fuel pump failed they brought me another rental and didn't charge me:iconTU:

But doesn't my point still apply...no fault collision insurance covers mechanical failure?

[Hunter]

Not thick, you just don't get what is happening.

It is a hustle. No one believes that the car was wrecked. They want cash money from me. They do not want to file a false insurance claim with whoever covers them. There was no wreck, they know this. They set me out with a bad car they knew would put me down, so they could fabricate charges...... hoping I would just pay.

No wreck = no police report= no insurance pay out.

I really do not care about the cock suckers at the franchise. My real problem is that the corporate office in the U.S. supports this bullshit and backs the franchise even though there is not a shred of evidence from them.

You might get credit collectors after you and hurt your credit score if you don't shell...that sucks

[Corrado]

sounds like the motor seized up and they are trying to say he wrecked it:rofl:
poor maintenance on there part or the factory warranty would have covered it

he better demand an itemized bill and go from there after consulting with a dealer in the usa about what they say went wrong and if they would/should cover it :iconTU:

even in cuba when a fuel pump failed they brought me another rental and didn't charge me:iconTU:

Thanks, that is exactly what happened. Not just poor maintenance, I firmly believe it was done on purpose.

I got the itemized bill. Corporate has it too. Corporate says they cannot control the billing practices of the franchises in foreign countries.

So if a dealer in the U.S. says they would cover it, then what?

[Corrado]

You might get credit collectors after you and hurt your credit score if you don't shell...that sucks

Yep, but that works both ways.

[whynotme]

But doesn't my point still apply...no fault collision insurance covers mechanical failure?

nope:corky:
there wasn't a collision there fore no payment would be paid

you need a mechanical coverage policy like lubrico/coast to coast/ gmpp etc to cover breakdowns

[whynotme]

Thanks, that is exactly what happened. Not just poor maintenance, I firmly believe it was done on purpose.

I got the itemized bill. Corporate has it too. Corporate says they cannot control the billing practices of the franchises in foreign countries.

So if a dealer in the U.S. says they would cover it, then what?
then get it in writing and send the letter to avis 0n a lawyers letterhead:corky:

[JD426]

What Kind of Car did you rent, what exactly did you wreck ? The engine , the transmission ? Did they claim there was NO oil in the engine and thats why it seized ?
How many miles did you drive it until this happened.
Sounds like the car was not maintained to me but it could have been a catastrophic Failire, or a Timimg BELT BLEW & the valves Kissed the Pistons ? that is my guess..

without knowing more its hard to say.. A Timing belt, as an Example is CLEARLY NOT your fault. No WAY. you are not a mechanic , nor required to know when one is about to go. But if the OIL was VERY LOW, and then the engine seized, cause you kept driving it, They might try to hold you responsible .. not sure if thats what happened..

Curious to know exactly what it was that " destroyed or wrecked" the engine.


edit

Wait,
"the machanic went UNDER that Car, and took something from under thar car" ??
Like what ?
Did you HIT something on the Road at night, Or BOTTOM OUT, HARD ?

[Hunter]

nope:corky:
there wasn't a collision there fore no payment would be paid

you need a mechanical coverage policy like lubrico/coast to coast/ gmpp etc to cover breakdowns

If you rent a car in Miami and get no fault collision insurance and buy it from Avis. You get on highway and engine seizes...you are not liable for that. Avis is going to replace that car. Now if you refused there no fault collision insurance then your fucked and have to get your credit card company to pay and that is nightmare.

Its DR maybe there laws are different. I still stay Avis must have some documents that back the claim that Corrado owes that money. I would hire a lawyer if it really looks like you have to pay the 6k.

[whynotme]

If you rent a car in Miami and get no fault collision insurance and buy it from Avis. You get on highway and engine seizes...you are not liable for that. Avis is going to replace that car. Now if you refused there no fault collision insurance then your fucked and have to get your credit card company to pay and that is nightmare.

Its DR maybe there laws are different. I still stay Avis must have some documents that back the claim that Corrado owes that money. I would hire a lawyer if it really looks like you have to pay the 6k.

I think you are wrong:rofl::rofl:

the engine is covered by the manufactures warranty and never by any form of no fault collision insurance

they will just send it back to the nearest dealer and have them fix it for free:corky:
( I took three years off from my own business and managed a large gm/Pontiac/buick/gmc dealership which also had an enterprise rental outlet I was in charge of in off hours:eek:

[Hunter]

I think you are wrong:rofl::rofl:

the engine is covered by the manufactures warranty and never by any form of no fault collision insurance

they will just send it back to the nearest dealer and have them fix it for free:corky:
( I took three years off from my own business and managed a large gm/Pontiac/buick/gmc dealership which also had an enterprise rental outlet I was in charge of in off hours:eek:

I guess what I mean is the customer who rented the car doesn't have to pay for that engine.

[whynotme]

I guess what I mean is the customer who rented the car doesn't have to pay for that engine.

exactly and insurance or no insurance doesn't matter or even come into the equation as its covered by the manufacturer...........................but........if you run over a piece of metal and rip open the oil pan and continue to drive until the motor seizes then that's a totally different scenario and then that is not covered by the factory warranty and you will need no fault collision coverage as that is classed as a collision ..

[JD426]

exactly and insurance or no insurance doesn't matter or even come into the equation as its covered by the manufacturer...........................but........if you run over a piece of metal and rip open the oil pan and continue to drive until the motor seizes then that's a totally different scenario and then that is not covered by the factory warranty and you will need no fault collision coverage as that is classed as a collision ..

Whatever it was, it was catastrophic, IMO // Cuz the odds of an engine seizing while you are renting that car, no matter how shitty , is pretty rare, unless like you said you ripped the oil pan open, or maybe bottomed out and Hit so hard it dented the oil pan ? but that would take a lot of miles for the bearings to seize. I've had Crankshafts literally wear THROUGH the oil pan, the dent was so severe but it never shut down . But a A NO OIL scenario would shut an engine down real fast, for sure .

[questner]

When you rent you have to put in writing in papers that you declined a coverage with your cc

Let's work it the other way, let's say yes you did wrecked the car, hit the stones etc.

Which type of vehicle did you rent? How much exactly insurance per day did you pay? Please itemize.

My point is simple, if you paid for every peril imaginable with zero deductible, did not explicitly and in writing relied upon your CC coverage, have all your papers etc. then they can suck dick, they won't be able to collect.

[dquick]

Not thick, you just don't get what is happening.

It is a hustle. No one believes that the car was wrecked. They want cash money from me. They do not want to file a false insurance claim with whoever covers them. There was no wreck, they know this. They set me out with a bad car they knew would put me down, so they could fabricate charges...... hoping I would just pay.

No wreck = no police report= no insurance pay out.

I really do not care about the cock suckers at the franchise. My real problem is that the corporate office in the U.S. supports this bullshit and backs the franchise even though there is not a shred of evidence from them.

The highlighted section is what most are missing in this thread. A couple years ago, most airport rental car companies changed their policy. If a car is damaged, they require a police report for the purchased insurance to pay. It makes no difference if you purchase collision insurance, damage waiver, tires and glass. For any damage, they are now insisting on a police report. They know the police will not write a report, unless there was an actual accident. So this is nothing but a scam.

This happened to me with Avis in Santo Domingo. They claimed there was a scratch on the back bumper that originally was not there. I was not in an accident, but I was not worried, because I purchased the damage waiver. They then insisted on a police report. They initially charged my credit card about $500 :mad::mad:. What partly saved me was that I was back in town in a little over a week. I was able to dispute the charge locally. After many calls and a favor from a local business man, the charge was dropped. If I was in the US disputing this, I would have been stuck with the $500 charge, even if my credit card company dropped the charge.

Since then, I polled the other rental car companies out of the airport. ALL REQUIRE A POLICE REPORT NOW!!! So the insurance from the airport rental car company is useless. (Unless you want to bribe the policia to write a report.) Your credit card insurance is not going to pay either, if there was not an actual accident.

I now rent from dominicans I know, who do not take credit cards or hold passports. I have two that I deal with and have not had any problems. The cars are not as new, but the rentals are cheaper.

[Rubicon]

I now rent from dominicans I know, who do not take credit cards or hold passports. I have two that I deal with and have not had any problems. The cars are not as new, but the rentals are cheaper.

Which speaks to the rental process. What happens in the event of vehicular damage? I'm assuming they're not going to turn the other cheek.

[dquick]

Which speaks to the rental process. What happens in the event of vehicular damage? I'm assuming they're not going to turn the other cheek.

If I damage a car, I will pay to get it fixed. If there is an accident, the last think I am going to do is stick around and get thrown in jail. (A gringo in a multiple car accident gets thrown in jail, until he pays everybody off. It does not matter who is at fault. If you do not know this, you don't need to be driving in the DR.) So in that case, I will pay to fix the car.

The only other option is NOT to drive in the DR.

[Rubicon]

(A gringo in a multiple car accident gets thrown in jail, until he pays everybody off. It does not matter who is at fault. If you do not know this, you don't need to be driving in the DR.)

I'm very familiar with driving in the DR. I've been driving there since 2005 (I have my DR license) and shipped my own Jeep there in 2006. Since the jist of the thread discussion related to consequences of an accident or other vehicle damage I was curious how that would be handled by the people you deal with, as you only mentioned how great the rental process is.

[dquick]

I'm very familiar with driving in the DR. I've been driving there since 2005 (I have my DR license) and shipped my own Jeep there in 2006. Since the jist of the thread discussion related to consequences of an accident or other vehicle damage I was curious how that would be handled by the people you deal with, as you only mentioned how great the rental process is.

Good point. The guys I rent from know me and know I would not leave them holding the bill for a damaged car.

I have no good advice for a once a year tourist renting a car in the DR, other than consider hiring a driver. In retrospect, I started renting a car way too early in my travels to the DR. BUT renting allowed me to see much more of the island. Maybe a good driver could have done the same.

[Hunter]

Thanks Dquick. Making more sense to me now. I guess Corrodo should of got police report no matter what even if no accident and payed the cop off if he had to.

I cant believe the tourist board would let something like this go on. That is outrageous and illegal what is going on. I guess you cant apply logic in the DR.

[JD426]

Thanks Dquick. Making more sense to me now. I guess Corrodo should of got police report no matter what even if no accident and payed the cop off if he had to.

I cant believe the tourist board would let something like this go on. That is outrageous and illegal what is going on. I guess you cant apply logic in the DR.

YEagh, this is very VERY ineresting.. I learned something here..
I Dont rent from the Airport anymore just like Dquick I rent from a smaller outfit in Sosua (who was recommended by a Board Member here) ., and who has always treated me fairly, and would not jack me up if there was a scratch on the car etc. So I do feel SAFE with him.. he does not keep my passport only a copy , and I pay cash . No credit card even involved.. But I was doing this purely cause its just CHEAPER, not even realizing how LUCKY I have been all along.

Because, the few times I HAD to rent at the Airport for Logistical reasons, and I PAID THE FULL INSURANCE.. I had always assumed I was 100% COVERED.. But I always wondered why they went over the car with a fine tooth comb when I returned it.. Now I think I KNOW.. Even though I thought I had insurance,, IF there was ANY damage to the Car, and no Police Report.. they would have Jacked me the fuck up to pay it anyway, on the spot. So WTF is the point of paying their OUTRAGEOUS insurance if you can still be prevented from getting on your plane and forced to pay for some shit you may not even have known about.. Like some pre existing Damage or Lack of Maintenace on their part ???
Oh fuck them.. thats some bullshit.

[questner]

Never return your car on the last day of the trip, weekend etc, it's just logical.

Rubicon, we want to hear more about your experience.

I talked to Mike - he rents vehicles from behind Rumba - he has got insured ( as a fleet) and uninsured vehicles, prices vary of course. As I recall deductible on uninsured one is $3,000 (?).

Once when I was younger I crashed my company's Land Rover, and the insured deductible was $3,000 so I don't want charges like these to show up again, but for some folks it's a fridge change.

[blg100]

I agree with the op. NEVER rent from Avis in the DR. Im a Avis Chairmans Club member, the absolute highest reward level that they have. I once rented a car from the pop airport and the girl at the counter told me that she had to put a $1000 hold on my card. I thought that was crazy because I was paying with a AMEX and it wasn't a debit card, but fuck it, I agreed. I kept the car for 10 days everything went ok and I returned the car with no problems. I came back to the us and returned to pop 1 week later. Same girl, same vehicle. This time she said that she needed to put a $5000 hold on my card. A number that she just pulled out of her ass. I was like WTF? She said that she had to put that hold on in case I did not return the car. Once again, WTF? Right then and there I called the Chairmans club dept at AVIS and I swear on everything that my rep at Avis told me that it is not a good idea to rent from Avis in the DR because they are independent operators that have no real regulations. Avis in the DR is nothing more than a tourist trap. If something goes wrong Avis in the US will not help u. This came directly from my rep at avis

[Rubicon]

Rubicon, we want to hear more about your experience.

Such as?

[Corrado]

then get it in writing and send the letter to avis 0n a lawyers letterhead:corky:

Unless that letterhead says my lawyer is the Attorney General, I have doubts that my U.S. lawyer is going to move a foreign company to recant on a scam. I will however see about it.

[Corrado]

What Kind of Car did you rent, what exactly did you wreck ? The engine , the transmission ? Did they claim there was NO oil in the engine and thats why it seized ?
How many miles did you drive it until this happened.
Sounds like the car was not maintained to me but it could have been a catastrophic Failire, or a Timimg BELT BLEW & the valves Kissed the Pistons ? that is my guess..

without knowing more its hard to say.. A Timing belt, as an Example is CLEARLY NOT your fault. No WAY. you are not a mechanic , nor required to know when one is about to go. But if the OIL was VERY LOW, and then the engine seized, cause you kept driving it, They might try to hold you responsible .. not sure if thats what happened..

Curious to know exactly what it was that " destroyed or wrecked" the engine.


edit

Wait,
"the machanic went UNDER that Car, and took something from under thar car" ??
Like what ?
Did you HIT something on the Road at night, Or BOTTOM OUT, HARD ?


I want to be perfectly clear. I never hit anything, at any point in time, ever.

They did not claim anything......just an itemized bill. I assume a mechanic would be able to surmise the problem based on looking at the parts, but I could not. I drove from Santiago to Esperanza, then to POP. The oil light came on 3-5 seconds before the car failed. There was not even time to pull over between the light and the failure.

I'm not a mechanic and my ability in automotive science only extends to changing the oil. I would not know what it was he pulled from under the car even you showed it to me again.

[Corrado]

If you rent a car in Miami and get no fault collision insurance and buy it from Avis. You get on highway and engine seizes...you are not liable for that. Avis is going to replace that car. Now if you refused there no fault collision insurance then your fucked and have to get your credit card company to pay and that is nightmare.

Its DR maybe there laws are different. I still stay Avis must have some documents that back the claim that Corrado owes that money. I would hire a lawyer if it really looks like you have to pay the 6k.

If its as scam....and it is, why would they document it?

[JD426]

I want to be perfectly clear. I never hit anything, at any point in time, ever.

They did not claim anything......just an itemized bill. I assume a mechanic would be able to surmise the problem based on looking at the parts, but I could not. I drove from Santiago to Esperanza, then to POP. The oil light came on 3-5 seconds before the car failed. There was not even time to pull over between the light and the failure.

I'm not a mechanic and my ability in automotive science only extends to changing the oil. I would not know what it was he pulled from under the car even you showed it to me again.

What did the guy SAY ? the guy who pulled it from under the car.. what exactly did he SAY to you ? he didnt go into any detail ? just said " u wrecked it"
I am just curious WHAT caused this massive failire.. as it can happen to anyone, especially if you didnt hit anything...

Not being suspicious of what you are saying.. but I DO have mechanical knowledge, i fix my own cars, in fact noone touches them.. but I am now TOTALLY confused as to what happened to you, ESPECIALLY the light coming on SECONDS before the engine seized...
Did you hear ANY NOISES ?

[Corrado]

@
Thanks Dquick. Making more sense to me now. I guess Corrodo should of got police report no matter what even if no accident and payed the cop off if he had to.

I cant believe the tourist board would let something like this go on. That is outrageous and illegal what is going on. I guess you cant apply logic in the DR.

Not an option. The police would not make a report, and I did offer to assist the for the effort. But not for the accident, it was for the credit card fraud. The police indicated that since the charge had not gone through....and the bank issued a fraud alert that there were no damages to me from Avis......so they could not do a report.

There are a couple of things that people keep missing.

1. Even if I had a police report......I'd be filing a false police report for insurance purposes....insurance fraud.....

2. The Dominican franchise gave me a car they knew was mechanically unsound. They knew it would eventually go out on a customer (not specifically me), who they would then charge.

3. They do not want to commit insurance fraud with their carrier, buy filing false claims. They want to charge a customer who will pay them.

4. If I had elected their 100% coverage for any and all accidents, collisions, acts of GOD, terrorist attacks, and the end of the universe............Its still a scam.....they want my money......they would still be billing me no matter what, because that was the plan......"cut our maintenance budget, save money, car dies, bill client for premium parts and service, get money, fix car using used parts good for 1 year.......repeat"

[Corrado]

For some reason multi quote does not work.....And I cannot use thanks either.....But thanks to all the replies, it really means a lot :iconTU:

[Corrado]

What did the guy SAY ? the guy who pulled it from under the car.. what exactly did he SAY to you ? he didnt go into any detail ? just said " u wrecked it"
I am just curious WHAT caused this massive failire.. as it can happen to anyone, especially if you didnt hit anything...

Not being suspicious of what you are saying.. but I DO have mechanical knowledge, i fix my own cars, in fact noone touches them.. but I am now TOTALLY confused as to what happened to you, ESPECIALLY the light coming on SECONDS before the engine seized...
Did you hear ANY NOISES ?

Dominican mechanic with limited English, I speak Spanish, but he insisted on speaking English, to keep communication limited, I assume.

"Mira thees!" pointing to a small black cylindrical object in his hand

"You rec dee car" pointing to the object, then pulling the front bumper (that had no marks on it)

"Here, you mira" pulling harder on the bumper

"You rec dee car" pointing to the part again

"You rec it"

That was what he said.

There was a hard grinding sound very briefly (seconds), I took my foot off the gas, the emergency and oil lights came on, everything shut down. Less that 10 seconds total.

[Hunter]

If its as scam....and it is, why would they document it?

I meant Avis USA must have some documentation to back them up because you said they are making you pay and ruled against you...Avis USA....

[Corrado]

I agree with the op. NEVER rent from Avis in the DR. Im a Avis Chairmans Club member, the absolute highest reward level that they have. I once rented a car from the pop airport and the girl at the counter told me that she had to put a $1000 hold on my card. I thought that was crazy because I was paying with a AMEX and it wasn't a debit card, but fuck it, I agreed. I kept the car for 10 days everything went ok and I returned the car with no problems. I came back to the us and returned to pop 1 week later. Same girl, same vehicle. This time she said that she needed to put a $5000 hold on my card. A number that she just pulled out of her ass. I was like WTF? She said that she had to put that hold on in case I did not return the car. Once again, WTF? Right then and there I called the Chairmans club dept at AVIS and I swear on everything that my rep at Avis told me that it is not a good idea to rent from Avis in the DR because they are independent operators that have no real regulations. Avis in the DR is nothing more than a tourist trap. If something goes wrong Avis in the US will not help u. This came directly from my rep at avis

This right here! Affiliated with Avis in name only. So you feel comfortable doing business with them.

[Corrado]

I meant Avis USA must have some documentation to back them up because you said they are making you pay and ruled against you...Avis USA....

The franchise sent them the bill. Thats all. A franchise sends a bill, the Avis collections dept in the U.S. attempts to collect it.....thats all. Collections does not investigate the validity of the claim, they work for the client (whoever sends the bill to be collected). You could send a bill to a collection agency saying somebody owed you and they would try to collect on it.

[JD426]

This right here! Affiliated with Avis in name only. So you feel comfortable doing business with them.


So they LEASE THE NAME only, ? WOW .. So the insurance THEY SELL us , IS totally WORTHLESS.. now I see why.
So The car rental owner could be some Drug Dealer, laundering Money.. or who knows who you even really dealing with..
and the Insurance $$, who even knows where the fuck that $$ goes.. I'm guessing right in his pocket Too.
They really are laughing at us Gringos..

and the whole contract then is fucking WORTHLESS, except when they can use it against us .. ..
Damnn.

Have you thought about threathening AVIS USA, to go to the MEDIA with this Bullshit ?
Do they really want to risk havingh their Name tarnished this way.
It might work.

[Corrado]

So they LEASE THE NAME only, ? WOW .. So the insurance THEY SELL us , IS totally WORTHLESS.. now I see why.
So The car rental owner could be some Drug Dealer, laundering Money.. or who knows who you even really dealing with..
and the Insurance $$, who even knows where the fuck that $$ goes.. I'm guessing right in his pocket Too.
They really are laughing at us Gringos..

and the whole contract then is fucking WORTHLESS, except when they can use it against us .. ..
Damnn.

Have you thought about threathening AVIS USA, to go to the MEDIA with this Bullshit ?
Do they really want to risk havingh their Name tarnished this way.
It might work.

You are right, it probably would get some traction. BUT, the media exposure of an American businessman, with several Dominican families, in a world renown sex tourism destination is a bit more than I would like...... I have to keep this administrative and/or legal for as long as possible.

[JD426]

You are right, it probably would get some traction. BUT, the media exposure of an American businessman, with several Dominican families, in a world renown sex tourism destination is a bit more than I would like...... I have to keep this administrative and/or legal for as long as possible.

But as I recall,, ( without goin into specifics on open forum) but, You already have a LEGIT REASON for being in the DR. .. a VERY LEGIT reason.. a Humanitarian reason in fact..
Does Avis really want to deal with such a P R nightmare ? I would guess NO... just a thought, but I guess you gave it some thought already.

[Rubicon]

This sounds like it's a purely "mechanical failure" issue, and it sounds like it was due either to very low oil, or no oil in the motor, as you did mention the oil light came on. So, the real issue is whether you have some liability as the result of the rental agency owner's lack of proper maintenance, for which they are notorious. One would think not but, as the saying goes "This is the DR."

[Don Tomas]

What did the guy SAY ? the guy who pulled it from under the car.. what exactly did he SAY to you ? he didnt go into any detail ? just said " u wrecked it"
I am just curious WHAT caused this massive failire.. as it can happen to anyone, especially if you didnt hit anything...

Not being suspicious of what you are saying.. but I DO have mechanical knowledge, i fix my own cars, in fact noone touches them.. but I am now TOTALLY confused as to what happened to you, ESPECIALLY the light coming on SECONDS before the engine seized...
Did you hear ANY NOISES ?

I know (with 99% surety) what happened!!!!!

My background: Between the ages of 17 & 29 I never resold a car I owned. I destroyed a total of 17 cars through various means including 2 of them starting on fire and burning up while I was driving them! Heck I owned my first car for 12 whole days!

One of the 17 was destroyed on a country road in Southern Illinois visiting a college buddy. I shot a rock through the oil pan, what Corrado described is EXACTLY what happened to me. 2-3 seconds of the oil pressure light and then the engine seized. Sounds like a foreign object went through the oil pan.

Sounds like bad luck to me. As for responsibility sadly I would say you are liable, as for the insurance well I didn't read what it covered. I know my credit card doesn't cover non paved AND non maintained roads which any decent lawyer would argue a mountain road in the DR would fall under non maintained.

Finally as for the cost, that amount would be about right for a new engine.

[Don Tomas]

Finally as for the cost, that amount would be about right for a new engine.

I want to clarify this, you are still getting ripped off...

Yes $5,000 is about right for a brand new crate engine, but they will put an engine from an accident wreck into the car. Probably $1,200 total for labor and the engine, basing that off what a transmission cost me in the DR once and the difference between an engine & trans in the states.

[JD426]

I know (with 99% surety) what happened!!!!!

My background: Between the ages of 17 & 29 I never resold a car I owned. I destroyed a total of 17 cars through various means including 2 of them starting on fire and burning up while I was driving them! Heck I owned my first car for 12 whole days!

One of the 17 was destroyed on a country road in Southern Illinois visiting a college buddy. I shot a rock through the oil pan, what Corrado described is EXACTLY what happened to me. 2-3 seconds of the oil pressure light and then the engine seized. Sounds like a foreign object went through the oil pan.

Sounds like bad luck to me. As for responsibility sadly I would say you are liable, as for the insurance well I didn't read what it covered. I know my credit card doesn't cover non paved AND non maintained roads which any decent lawyer would argue a mountain road in the DR would fall under non maintained.

Finally as for the cost, that amount would be about right for a new engine.


I respectfully disagree, IF what Corrado is telling us is accurate..
Even a SMALL ROCK, when it Bounces up or hits under your car, is VERY VERY LOUD..
and He says he hit NOTHING.. I take that to mean, he didnt hear anything hit the car either..
Also he didnt bottom out.
so its a mystery..

IMO, 2- 5 seconds is also not enough time to drain the entire Oil pan , AND seize the engine..
In fact a Friend of mine (we worked on cars since we were about 16).. His little brother DROVE the car OFF the Ramps, with ZERO oil in it.. he got about 1.5 miles before she seized.. AN engine with ZERO oil, will still drive a little ways. definitely more than a couple seconds.

If you take a severe HIT, then YES it may shut down in seconds .. If you throw a ROD, then also it will shut down with lots of colorful smoke..
I had the prettiest BLUE smoke when I seized a Chevy small block ...One of several Engines I have seized.

NONE of this happened to Corrado.. according to him.. or at least not as he recalls.

So I am thinking Timing Belt again..
but who knows.. There is not enough info to go on..

[whynotme]

I respectfully disagree, IF what Corrado is telling us is accurate..
Even a SMALL ROCK, when it Bounces up or hits under your car, is VERY VERY LOUD..
and He says he hit NOTHING.. I take that to mean, he didnt hear anything hit the car either..
Also he didnt bottom out.
so its a mystery..

IMO, 2- 5 seconds is also not enough time to drain the entire Oil pan , AND seize the engine..
In fact a Friend of mine (we worked on cars since we were about 16).. His little brother DROVE the car OFF the Ramps, with ZERO oil in it.. he got about 1.5 miles before she seized.. AN engine with ZERO oil, will still drive a little ways. definitely more than a couple seconds.

If you take a severe HIT, then YES it may shut down in seconds .. If you throw a ROD, then also it will shut down with lots of colorful smoke..
I had the prettiest BLUE smoke when I seized a Chevy small block ...One of several Engines I have seized.

NONE of this happened to Corrado.. according to him.. or at least not as he recalls.

So I am thinking Timing Belt again..
but who knows.. There is not enough info to go on..

I bought a van at the auction with a knocking motor to part out and didn't care if it croaked so I drove it almost 100 miles with it getting more and more noisy until a rod came thru the side of the oil pan and dumped the oil immediately but I continued driving the rest of the way home.....it never rolled over after I shut it off though:lol:.......

[Don Tomas]

I respectfully disagree, IF what Corrado is telling us is accurate..
Even a SMALL ROCK, when it Bounces up or hits under your car, is VERY VERY LOUD..
and He says he hit NOTHING.. I take that to mean, he didnt hear anything hit the car either..
Also he didnt bottom out.
so its a mystery..

IMO, 2- 5 seconds is also not enough time to drain the entire Oil pan , AND seize the engine..
In fact a Friend of mine (we worked on cars since we were about 16).. His little brother DROVE the car OFF the Ramps, with ZERO oil in it.. he got about 1.5 miles before she seized.. AN engine with ZERO oil, will still drive a little ways. definitely more than a couple seconds.

If you take a severe HIT, then YES it may shut down in seconds .. If you throw a ROD, then also it will shut down with lots of colorful smoke..
I had the prettiest BLUE smoke when I seized a Chevy small block ...One of several Engines I have seized.

NONE of this happened to Corrado.. according to him.. or at least not as he recalls.

So I am thinking Timing Belt again..
but who knows.. There is not enough info to go on..

As far as hearing nothing, are you going to tell me that the radio wasn't on and probably cranked up? If so his was probably the only car on the entire island riding that way.:rofl:

As far as the time it takes to drain it depends on the hole, the rock I hit put a hole the size of a grapefruit in my pan. Also the distance it will go depends on many factors one of them being the current temp of the engine at the time you lose the oil, a nice cold engine will go farther. When the engine is hot the metal parts are already expanded. In my case it was very hot outside and I was pushing the engine going up a hill, sound familiar?

Very true about throwing a rod, and sometimes they will continue on as what happened to WNM. Also it depends on what type of rod you are talking about, people tend to sum them up together just saying "rod", push rod vs connecting rod. I have thrown both, FYI push rods make pretty cool looking volcano shaped dents in your hood!

As for the timing belt, the oil light led me away from that and to what happened to me.

PS. On another note of how "long" it takes to seize an engine. I seized a Buick 231 (the late 70s/early 80s revision) where the oil pressure was measured in single digits most of the time. All I did was pass a car on a bridge over some railroad tracks, going up hill (oil pickup in front), the auto trans did downshift so I was probably at 4500+ RPM. Mind you we are talking less than a 1/4 mile and I seized it. Again the light was on for a couple of seconds, but I foolishly disregarded it since that light being on was very common for that Buick engine.

PPS. Just relaying what I have experienced, again like you said we don't know everything.

[Corrado]

I know (with 99% surety) what happened!!!!!

My background: Between the ages of 17 & 29 I never resold a car I owned. I destroyed a total of 17 cars through various means including 2 of them starting on fire and burning up while I was driving them! Heck I owned my first car for 12 whole days!

One of the 17 was destroyed on a country road in Southern Illinois visiting a college buddy. I shot a rock through the oil pan, what Corrado described is EXACTLY what happened to me. 2-3 seconds of the oil pressure light and then the engine seized. Sounds like a foreign object went through the oil pan.

Sounds like bad luck to me. As for responsibility sadly I would say you are liable, as for the insurance well I didn't read what it covered. I know my credit card doesn't cover non paved AND non maintained roads which any decent lawyer would argue a mountain road in the DR would fall under non maintained.

Finally as for the cost, that amount would be about right for a new engine.

How does a rock shoot through the oil pan (seriously I have no idea what that is)? If this is what happened, how long does it take for all the oil to drain? Also why would the oil light come on a few seconds before total failure, it should show as the oil is draining, right? The road was paved. If a rock shoots the the oil pan isn't that an act of GOD? Like a tree limb falling, or a bird flying into a window.

[Corrado]

I respectfully disagree, IF what Corrado is telling us is accurate..
Even a SMALL ROCK, when it Bounces up or hits under your car, is VERY VERY LOUD..
and He says he hit NOTHING.. I take that to mean, he didnt hear anything hit the car either..
Also he didnt bottom out.
so its a mystery..

IMO, 2- 5 seconds is also not enough time to drain the entire Oil pan , AND seize the engine..
In fact a Friend of mine (we worked on cars since we were about 16).. His little brother DROVE the car OFF the Ramps, with ZERO oil in it.. he got about 1.5 miles before she seized.. AN engine with ZERO oil, will still drive a little ways. definitely more than a couple seconds.

If you take a severe HIT, then YES it may shut down in seconds .. If you throw a ROD, then also it will shut down with lots of colorful smoke..
I had the prettiest BLUE smoke when I seized a Chevy small block ...One of several Engines I have seized.

NONE of this happened to Corrado.. according to him.. or at least not as he recalls.

So I am thinking Timing Belt again..
but who knows.. There is not enough info to go on..

All correct.

[Corrado]

As far as hearing nothing, are you going to tell me that the radio wasn't on and probably cranked up? If so his was probably the only car on the entire island riding that way.:rofl:

As far as the time it takes to drain it depends on the hole, the rock I hit put a hole the size of a grapefruit in my pan. Also the distance it will go depends on many factors one of them being the current temp of the engine at the time you lose the oil, a nice cold engine will go farther. When the engine is hot the metal parts are already expanded. In my case it was very hot outside and I was pushing the engine going up a hill, sound familiar?

Very true about throwing a rod, and sometimes they will continue on as what happened to WNM. Also it depends on what type of rod you are talking about, people tend to sum them up together just saying "rod", push rod vs connecting rod. I have thrown both, FYI push rods make pretty cool looking volcano shaped dents in your hood!

As for the timing belt, the oil light led me away from that and to what happened to me.

PS. On another note of how "long" it takes to seize an engine. I seized a Buick 231 (the late 70s/early 80s revision) where the oil pressure was measured in single digits most of the time. All I did was pass a car on a bridge over some railroad tracks, going up hill (oil pickup in front), the auto trans did downshift so I was probably at 4500+ RPM. Mind you we are talking less than a 1/4 mile and I seized it. Again the light was on for a couple of seconds, but I foolishly disregarded it since that light being on was very common for that Buick engine.

PPS. Just relaying what I have experienced, again like you said we don't know everything.

That is correct the radio was low....the window was cracked so I could hear motos with no lights, it was night time.

When you say you hit a rock that makes the problem a bit more clear about the oil pan. I did not hit anything, at any time, ever! Nor did I roll over any large objects in the road way.

Was there a hole in the oil pan, I could not say? Even if I got under the car with the mechanic .......its all greek to me. If there was a hole, then why would the mechanic pull a part from underneath the car as "proof" that it was wrecked? I do not disagree that the car was damaged......I just did not do it. I just got caught with the car when it was discovered. Much like a dinner party at a bar & grill, the last person at the table gets stuck with the check......even if you just had the water with lemon.

[questner]

Such as?

Getting a DR licence (does it make a difference, the process), importing a vehicle, insuring it, and the most important lessons learned while operating a vehicle in DR. Does anyone have to be a resident? How about non residents who stay significant part of the year on the island and/or rent long term and may contemplate buying or importing a vehicle and parking it while away?

[questner]

Look, maybe I am wrong, but you should not fear any credit card fraud and filing a false report.
You have to get a police report. This report will state whatever police will put on the report. Then the agency has to file a claim if they wish, i.e. you relinquish your right to claim against the insurance and surrender this right to a third party - the rental agency. All these steps have to be clearly written in the insurance paperwork you have received at the time of renting the vehicle. If they don't want to file a claim, it's their fucking problem. Again, your cc is needed only to pay for charges if you do not return the rental on time, want to extend your rental etc. All claims are between the agency and the insurance company. You are not a party to an insurance contract. You receive only a certificate and pay upon the bill. The insurance contract is between Avis and the relevant insurance company.

[Corrado]

Look, maybe I am wrong, but 1. you should not fear any credit card fraud and filing a false report.
2. You have to get a police report. This report will state whatever police will put on the report. Then the agency has to file a claim if they wish, i.e. you relinquish your right to claim against the insurance and surrender this right to a third party - the rental agency. All these steps have to be clearly written in the insurance paperwork you have received at the time of renting the vehicle. If they don't want to file a claim, it's their fucking problem. Again, your cc is needed only to pay for charges if you do not return the rental on time, want to extend your rental etc. 3. All claims are between the agency and the insurance company. You are not a party to an insurance contract. You receive only a certificate and pay upon the bill. The insurance contract is between Avis and the relevant insurance company.

I know it can be hard to see exactly what is going on, but to summarize

1. If someone has your credit card information and has all the information on your drivers license, and has the ability to make charge as an anonymous vender...........then yes you should be concerned about credit card fraud.

2. You do realize that if I push the police they can write a report after the fact stating I wrecked the car. They are no better than corporate and can use the franchises bill as evidence against me.

3. The franchise knows that they do not maintain their vehicles, they know that the vehicle was not wrecked......they do not want insurance to FIX the car, they want my MONEY in hand. All the talk about how insurance is handled is great in the states, or Canada, but not in the DR.......because they are scamming (me , not their insurance). The intent is to take money from whoever gets caught holding the bag. You cannot, cannot, cannot try to apply normal reasoning and process to someone who wants to ROB you. In addition Avis corporate is not concerned with insurance.....just collection. You bill it..........they collect it.

[Rubicon]

3. The franchise knows that they do not maintain their vehicles, they know that the vehicle was not wrecked.......

And this is where I think you need to make your argument. I would insist on a report from AVIS stateside and argue the very point you made above. I would also try and obtain some documentation outlining requirements for maintenance by the rental agency (if any exist) and continue to push this as an issue of lack of maintenance by the rental agency rather than something you may or may not have done relating to maintenance.

[Rubicon]

Getting a DR licence (does it make a difference, the process), importing a vehicle, insuring it, and the most important lessons learned while operating a vehicle in DR. Does anyone have to be a resident? How about non residents who stay significant part of the year on the island and/or rent long term and may contemplate buying or importing a vehicle and parking it while away?

As you can see, it's early and my response would require more time than I have right now. I'll try to get to this tonight but if I don't just post a reminder and I'll get to it.