for sale

[jajalekker]

hello guys..

what is up with that...

that almost every hotel is for sale at the moment..

the waterfront..europe..the palace...sosua by the sea...voramar...
and much more

[Don Tomas]

Every business in the tourist areas are always for sale, even if not advertised.

[guttaman]

All these places are for sale for a reason. The earthquake of 2002 weakened the structural support of all these places. The owners that had insurance took the cash and put a bandaid on these places. Now they need serious help. Roofs have been leaking for years into the walls causing toxic mold situations. These places are made out of very porous concrete and retain moisture 24/7. The aircon is run in these rooms only when they are rented. Air con is the only dehumidifier at all the hotels. My luggage still smells of mold from 2 of the places mentioned in the post. I live in Boston and never get sick with the change of the seasons. While staying at 2 of the places mentioned i got severe flu like symptons each time. I checked the official US goverment website and the 2 major heallth risks are Malaria and Upper Respiratory colds from the mold. Chicas are always sick from moldy shacks with no aircon also. Getting back to the FOR SALE SIGNS. These places will always be for sale for 2 or 3 times their real value. They all read PT Barnums book. I think it is also required reading in Puta 101 in school. " A SUCKER IS BORN EVERY DAY ".

[WSJ3]

I guess the take home message is that we should not invest US dollars in these hotels.

[Pana]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.

[Pana]

I guess the take home message is that we should not invest US dollars in these hotels.
You are right I would not invest down there right now, you never know the people might get feed up with the government and try to over throw them.

[WSJ3]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.

What will asking the US for money do for their economy? What they need is a way to become self-sustaining (and I don't mean more putas) so that their society can eventually break away from third world (emerging market) status.

[WSJ3]

I guess the take home message is that we should not invest US dollars in these hotels.
You are right I would not invest down there right now, you never know the people might get feed up with the government and try to over throw them.

I hope this never happens when I am vacationing down there...

Civil unrest always ends up getting the mongering tourist injured...

[Pana]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.

What will asking the US for money do for their economy? What they need is a way to become self-sustaining (and I don't mean more putas) so that their society can eventually break away from third world (emerging market) status.
It was my friend who lives down that suggested that because he profits bigtime when the dollar is high, sorry to sat I dont think they will ever break away from the 3rd world status, when most of people there just want to drink and fuck there's nothing wrong with that but there is more to life than just that.

[Reel Deal]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.I disagree. The DR will probably end the year as the fastest growing economy in Central America.

Businesses are investing in themselves (as I predicted several monbths ago they would). There is new construction everywhere.

The fuel situation could hurt the DR like it's hurting the US, however.

[guttaman]

The whole country is in need of intrastructure. Look what happened in New Orleans. If the US of A is having troubles with a power supply then the DR is FUCKED. Venezuela does hook up the DR but lately they have been playing nice with the US. Promising more oil than usual. I am sure that all import countries other than Europe want US dollars. The dollar is creeping towards 30 to 1. As the price of fuel goes up the dollar will be in demand. The banks are running out of US dollars and are full with pesos. Why would anyone want to invest in a country where the Government controls the exchange rate. The President of the DR was awarded an award from UMASS Boston for his democracy policies in June. It is clear that the DR is still a Socialist country. Economist value the Peso at 35-37 to 1 US dollar. All the US tourist are being shuffled to the AI's on the South Coast that are owned by foreign companies. The tourist business on the North Coast is getting more reliant on the monger crowd. Playa Dorado will be a ghost town in 5 years. Or it will be sold off as condos like Caribe Campo was years ago. Most ex-pats travel to Santiago twice a month for food and medicine for 1/2 the cost than on the coast. Example: 60 diazapam in Sosua 2400 pesos/ 60 in Moca 740 pesos. Sosua will always be there as long as there are whores and suckers.

[Pana]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.I disagree. The DR will probably end the year as the fastest growing economy in Central America.

Businesses are investing in themselves (as I predicted several monbths ago they would). There is new construction everywhere.

The fuel situation could hurt the DR like it's hurting the US, however.
This was not my opinon it was a friend and a cousin who lives down in DR.

[Pana]

Just talk with the local Dominican and ask them what they think whats going on in their country right now Hippolito set it back for 8 years fucking up the economy while he was president.

[Pana]

The whole country is in need of intrastructure. Look what happened in New Orleans. If the US of A is having troubles with a power supply then the DR is FUCKED. Venezuela does hook up the DR but lately they have been playing nice with the US. Promising more oil than usual. I am sure that all import countries other than Europe want US dollars. The dollar is creeping towards 30 to 1. As the price of fuel goes up the dollar will be in demand. The banks are running out of US dollars and are full with pesos. Why would anyone want to invest in a country where the Government controls the exchange rate. The President of the DR was awarded an award from UMASS Boston for his democracy policies in June. It is clear that the DR is still a Socialist country. Economist value the Peso at 35-37 to 1 US dollar. All the US tourist are being shuffled to the AI's on the South Coast that are owned by foreign companies. The tourist business on the North Coast is getting more reliant on the monger crowd. Playa Dorado will be a ghost town in 5 years. Or it will be sold off as condos like Caribe Campo was years ago. Most ex-pats travel to Santiago twice a month for food and medicine for 1/2 the cost than on the coast. Example: 60 diazapam in Sosua 2400 pesos/ 60 in Moca 740 pesos. Sosua will always be there as long as there are whores and suckers.
Very good point, Leonel soon or later he is going to have to raise the the dollar.

[Macky]

In other words - the exchange rate will be back in 40:1 which for mongering is excellent :)

I know I'll be watching the exchange rate daily - when it hits 40 I'll pick up some pesos for my january trip :)

[Reel Deal]

The extent of any manipulation of the peso is greatly exagerated. The absence of a black market is prima facea evidence. If the Central Bank wanted more dollars, they'd raise the rate. They haven't.

The reality is there is an abundance of dollars since many of the CD's were not renewed. A lot of that money is going into business expansion.

I don't know about the AI situation, but I doubt the North Coast is going to be a ghost town. I doubt mongering represents even 1% of the net net tourist revcenue. Tourist towns are always more expensive than non-tourist towns there, just like the US.

The DR is not socialist by any stretch of the imagination. I cannot think of one institution that operates in a socialist manner. There is no welfare, SS, or socialized medicine of any kind. Their government is patterned after the US, and basically operates as such. Energy is state-controlled, however, but hardly socialized.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys live on a different reality planet than I do...

A country like the DR is more economically fraqgile than the US. There are only 9,000,000 people there. NYC and Chicago are bigger. Keep that in mind.

[guttaman]

Maybe 32 to 34 by January. Like RD said. Much money is being made in the industrialized free trade regions off the cheap labor of the Hatians and the money reinvested in anticipation for CAFTA. The dollar still needs to gain ground on the Euro and the DR needs to be more reliant on the USA for building materials before the need for dollars raise the peso rate. If the IMF goes ahead and loans the DR more US dollars then there will be no need for George Washingtons until the debt is due. And it seems that whenever a debt is due it is refinanced and extended for 5 more years. Just like a giant pryamid scheme. The IMF will make a big difference in the peso. If they decide to tighten thier lending policies then it will help the dollar versus peso.

[WSJ3]

It was my friend who lives down that suggested that because he profits bigtime when the dollar is high, sorry to sat I dont think they will ever break away from the 3rd world status, when most of people there just want to drink and fuck there's nothing wrong with that but there is more to life than just that.

Scarface:

Is this all there is to life...

Eating
Drinking
Fucking
Sucking...

YES!!!

[guttaman]

RD, the US has welfare, SS and medicaid and medicare. In no way is the DR government patterned after the US of A. People arrested and held for not having a cedula on them. No way can you call a military run Government a Democracy. It may not be a Socialist country but it is a cross between Socialist and a Dictatorship. You are much more educated in the Dr than i am. I realize you have much family in the Dr but that family is well off so rose colored glasses can be put on. The econemy may be growing but so is the percentage of poor to rich. Just like in the States. There are many simularities in the 2 countries. But no way is the DR a Democracy. Is China called The Peoples Republic of China anymore. If the Dr want to be taken seriously as a Democratic country step one should be rename the country by dropping Republic. Dominicana sounds much more democratic. I respect your knowledge and have been inspired to look more into the country by you and DT. This is only my opinion. The DR is like the USA. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[Reel Deal]

RD, the US has welfare, SS and medicaid and medicare. In no way is the DR government patterned after the US of A. People arrested and held for not having a cedula on them. No way can you call a military run Government a Democracy. It may not be a Socialist country but it is a cross between Socialist and a Dictatorship. You are much more educated in the Dr than i am. I realize you have much family in the Dr but that family is well off so rose colored glasses can be put on. The econemy may be growing but so is the percentage of poor to rich. Just like in the States. There are many simularities in the 2 countries. But no way is the DR a Democracy. Is China called The Peoples Republic of China anymore. If the Dr want to be taken seriously as a Democratic country step one should be rename the country by dropping Republic. Dominicana sounds much more democratic. I respect your knowledge and have been inspired to look more into the country by you and DT. This is only my opinion. The DR is like the USA. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.With all due respect, you are very, very wrong.

The DR Constitution is a virtual mirror image of the US: Bi-cameral legislature, Executive Branch, and a Supreme Court. There is even a modicum of a Bill of Rights. Neither the US nor DR government is defined by social programs. They are defined by their Constitution.

The military does not run the government. Are there waaay too many Generals? Absolutely. Do they run any branch of the Government? No. That's not to say abuses don't occur, because they do. But those abuses are on the outside of the organized government.

And it ABSOLUTELY is not a dictatorship. Even Hippo couldn't pull that one off, and Lord knows he wanted to.

Are there poor people in the DR? No doubt. Are they growing? Based on the babies the poor are popping out (like the US), yes there are. BUT, the middle class is growing at a rate faster than any time in DR history, and that is a good thing.

Can poverty be eliminated? Doubtful. The US has spent something like 6 TRILLION dollars since the War on Poverty in 1964, and the US still has poor people. If the US can't do something, it's pretty hard for the DR to do it. (The poor need to send their kids to school, IMO. That will do a great deal in fixing institutional poverty-just like it can in the US).

CAFTA, when fully integrated, will do wonders for raising the standard of living for the average Dominican.

I don't wear rose-colored glasses. Makes things look unreal. I like real.

You shoulda seen the Campo where my "family" came from. DT and gdogg got to see it with their own eyeballs-and farther from civilization, and the'd be going toward civilization!. IMO, the fact my family became successful considering their humble beginnings is testiment to the ability of Dominicans to achieve success in their country through education, thrift, a can-do spirit, and hard work. Just like America.

[Don Tomas]

Dominicana sounds much more democratic.

There's already a country named Dominica, so Dominicana is to close, hell it's confused already, I can't tell you the number of people I meet that have no clue where the DR is.

As for the construction, when they cut the ribbon on the front doors I will agree with RD untill then I can show him 20 MAJOR public projects that have been going for many & many years. They get projects done for the rich; upscale condos, malls, etc. but not anything for the people. They just had an article that surgeries had to be stopped in Santo Domingo hospitals because they don't even have surgical gowns!!! Show me some construction the benefits the majority of the population (below middle class) and then maybe I will start seeing progress with you.

I love RD as a brother but he once said there is no reason why the rich would oppress the poor, if the poor make money they buy more things that the rich are selling so the rich get richer. Well there is a reason which is prevalent in the DR for keeping the poor, poor. POWER, Power corrupts, if you keep the people content then the fats cats can get all the money & power and rule the country their way. There is an article right now about the suspected torture of a prison inmate who has "disappeared" from the prison system, he was wanted for attacking some senator's aide. Sounds like a democracy to me. :roll:

[Don Tomas]

One more thing to add, there was another article in the papers on Monday.

The director(head) of the new government office created at the bequest of IMF just resigned due to the inability to perform the duties of the office.

The organization?

The new ministry to stop corruption in the government. He was quoted as saying that it was an impossible task and basically he was giving up!

The newspapers commented that those who had faith in the DR were crushed upon hearing that he resigned since they felt he was the best man for the job.

[Reel Deal]

I love RD as a brother but he once said there is no reason why the rich would oppress the poor, if the poor make money they buy more things that the rich are selling so the rich get richer. Well there is a reason which is prevalent in the DR for keeping the poor, poor. POWER, Power corrupts, if you keep the people content then the fats cats can get all the money & power and rule the country their way. There is an article right now about the suspected torture of a prison inmate who has "disappeared" from the prison system, he was wanted for attacking some senator's aide. Sounds like a democracy to me. :roll:Why on earth would one oppress the very people who they would enrich themselves from? It makes no sense. If I make $$$ from someone, I want them to have MORE, so maybe I can get a cut of that, too.

You guys need to back off the factless Populist Politics, and spend a few dollars taking several economics courses at the university. They would clear things up. To sound like Karl Marx is to show how little one actually understands about government and it's capabilities. He was big on pitting classes against each other, too, by definition.

I clearly see different levels of corruption in the DR. Corruption is bad. Very bad. But, hell, there is tremendous corruption in the Chicago and New York governments. In fact, Chicago is somewhat proud of the corruption. It's become legendary. Systemic Corruption can't be halted overnight; it will take a while, and with the DESIRE of the people who vote and influence their government at the ballot box.

Please educate me on condos, shopping malls, etc. paid for BY THE GOVERNMENT! I don't mean permitted, but paid for. Hell, the big hospital project outside of Santiago is not being built BECAUSE the government REFUSED to become a partner in it because it was not going to be for ALL the people (a move I agree with, BTW) .

People get abused in US prisons, too. It has nothing to do with being a democracy. It has to do with the idiots who do those things.

Exactly what "projects" would benefit the people anyway? Where is it written that it's the governments RESPONSIBILITY to directly "benefit" a particular calss of people, and who those people are? Government exists to organize society with specific rules, not to wipe every citizens ass.

No country is perfect. No economy is perfect. People have to rely on themselves.

[Don Tomas]

I never said the government had anything to do with those projects, what I am saying is the only building being done is for the the upper middle class and higher. Nothing is being done by the government, well at least nothing worth while. The only worth while improvement going on right now is the highway between Naverette and POP.

The public hospitals are over filled, there are no medical supplies to even help the people.

There are 9,300 CHAIRS needed in schools this year for the students, hell there's only 9 million people, I would guess that's a large percentage of students.

I am not sounding like Karl Marx but making this sound as nice as possible, remember RD you interact with a very small percentage of the Dominican population where as we interact with the larger percentage. I on the other hand see it all; I have a couple rich associates, some middle class friends, and finally poor. I see the good and the bad, you on the other hand see the bad only out the car window muttering why they can't clean up after themselves and go get an education. Saldly I see much more bad then I see good, you say cynical, I say realist.

[PapiQueRico]

I think RD sums it all up perfectly. His give a damn is broke. DT you have it all wrong. It is not the governments job to help the poor. It is actually the governments job to protect the wealthy. What is one of the first responsibilities of government in a society like ours, or the DR? To protect property and the rights associated with it. Hell, if we can't really own what we think we own then the entire system breaks down. You would never buy a house if you didn't think you could enforce your rights to that property. Wouldn't buy a car if anyone could just walk up and tool away in it without any consequences. Regretfully those who don't own much don't benefit much from all of this protection the government offers. But hey, that's their own fault, right?

Of course sometimes our government takes the additional step of helping those "with" get more. Like by giving tax breaks for interest on mortgages. If you can't get a mortgage you can't benefit from that. Or like giving tax breaks to lure companies to specific areas under the claim that that area will benefit from the jobs brought there. Of course people who own small businesses will never see this type of break. Your business needs to be at least into 7 or 8 figures to get that type of hand out. Then there are hand outs like in the recent energy bill giving billions (yes that is a b) of dollars to the energy (read oil) companies for them to do research into alternative energy. Perhaps that should be rescinded and we can let these companies use the 40%-50% increases in profit they have seen for the past two years to do their own research. Shit, in the end it will be these corporations, not the people who paid for the research through their taxes, who will own the patents on whatever they develop.

RD. as a believer in the free market I'm sure you also condemn all of these examples of corporate welfare, and the distortion of the market that they represent. To not do so would be totally inconsistent.

As for the corruption among the leadership (read that, the wealthy) of third world countries, it isn't quite as easily dealt with as our resident Adam Smith would have you believe. In fact, even if the people of the third world were fortunate enough to participate in free and open elections, and also have as one of their choices a relatively uncorrupt candidate, chances are once elected the leader would not stay that way. Why, you may ask? Because the very organization that is meant to help these countries successfully down the road of capitalism forces corruption down their throats. Read some of the comments of the recent Chief Economist of the World Bank, Joseph Stiglitz. No lefty he, but a distinguished member of the faculties of Yale, MIT and Stanford, a winner of the Nobel prize for Economics, and later part of the US treasury , before joining the World Bank.

The World Bank’s former Chief Economist’s accusations are eye-popping - including how the IMF and US Treasury fixed the Russian elections

"It has condemned people to death," the former apparatchik told me. This was like a scene out of Le Carre. The brilliant old agent comes in from the cold, crosses to our side, and in hours of debriefing, empties his memory of horrors committed in the name of a political ideology he now realizes has gone rotten.

And here before me was a far bigger catch than some used Cold War spy. Joseph Stiglitz was Chief Economist of the World Bank. To a great extent, the new world economic order was his theory come to life.

I "debriefed" Stigltiz over several days, at Cambridge University, in a London hotel and finally in Washington in April 2001 during the big confab of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. But instead of chairing the meetings of ministers and central bankers, Stiglitz was kept exiled safely behind the blue police cordons, the same as the nuns carrying a large wooden cross, the Bolivian union leaders, the parents of AIDS victims and the other ‘anti-globalization’ protesters. The ultimate insider was now on the outside.

In 1999 the World Bank fired Stiglitz. He was not allowed quiet retirement; US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, I’m told, demanded a public excommunication for Stiglitz’ having expressed his first mild dissent from globalization World Bank style.

Here in Washington we completed the last of several hours of exclusive interviews for The Observer and BBC TV’s Newsnight about the real, often hidden, workings of the IMF, World Bank, and the bank’s 51% owner, the US Treasury.

And here, from sources unnamable (not Stiglitz), we obtained a cache of documents marked, "confidential," "restricted," and "not otherwise (to be) disclosed without World Bank authorization."

Stiglitz helped translate one from bureaucratise, a "Country Assistance Strategy." There’s an Assistance Strategy for every poorer nation, designed, says the World Bank, after careful in-country investigation. But according to insider Stiglitz, the Bank’s staff ‘investigation’ consists of close inspection of a nation’s 5-star hotels. It concludes with the Bank staff meeting some begging, busted finance minister who is handed a ‘restructuring agreement’ pre-drafted for his ‘voluntary’ signature (I have a selection of these).

Each nation’s economy is individually analyzed, then, says Stiglitz, the Bank hands every minister the same exact four-step program.

Step One is Privatization - which Stiglitz said could more accurately be called, ‘Briberization.’ Rather than object to the sell-offs of state industries, he said national leaders - using the World Bank’s demands to silence local critics - happily flogged their electricity and water companies. "You could see their eyes widen" at the prospect of 10% commissions paid to Swiss bank accounts for simply shaving a few billion off the sale price of national assets.

And the US government knew it, charges Stiglitz, at least in the case of the biggest ‘briberization’ of all, the 1995 Russian sell-off. "The US Treasury view was this was great as we wanted Yeltsin re-elected. We don’t care if it’s a corrupt election. We want the money to go to Yeltzin" via kick-backs for his campaign.

Stiglitz is no conspiracy nutter ranting about Black Helicopters. The man was inside the game, a member of Bill Clinton’s cabinet as Chairman of the President’s council of economic advisors.

Most ill-making for Stiglitz is that the US-backed oligarchs stripped Russia’s industrial assets, with the effect that the corruption scheme cut national output nearly in half causing depression and starvation.

After briberization, Step Two of the IMF/World Bank one-size-fits-all rescue-your-economy plan is ‘Capital Market Liberalization.’ In theory, capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out. Unfortunately, as in Indonesia and Brazil, the money simply flowed out and out. Stiglitz calls this the "Hot Money" cycle. Cash comes in for speculation in real estate and currency, then flees at the first whiff of trouble. A nation’s reserves can drain in days, hours. And when that happens, to seduce speculators into returning a nation’s own capital funds, the IMF demands these nations raise interest rates to 30%, 50% and 80%.

"The result was predictable," said Stiglitz of the Hot Money tidal waves in Asia and Latin America. Higher interest rates demolished property values, savaged industrial production and drained national treasuries.

At this point, the IMF drags the gasping nation to Step Three: Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas. This leads, predictably, to Step-Three-and-a-Half: what Stiglitz calls, ‘The IMF riot.’

The IMF riot is painfully predictable. When a nation is, "down and out, [the IMF] takes advantage and squeezes the last pound of blood out of them. They turn up the heat until, finally, the whole cauldron blows up," as when the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor in Indonesia in 1998. Indonesia exploded into riots, but there are other examples - the Bolivian riots over water prices last year and this February, the riots in Ecuador over the rise in cooking gas prices imposed by the World Bank. You’d almost get the impression that the riot is written into the plan.

And it is. What Stiglitz did not know is that, while in the States, BBC and The Observer obtained several documents from inside the World Bank, stamped over with those pesky warnings, "confidential," "restricted," "not to be disclosed." Let’s get back to one: the "Interim Country Assistance Strategy" for Ecuador, in it the Bank several times states - with cold accuracy - that they expected their plans to spark, "social unrest," to use their bureaucratic term for a nation in flames.

That’s not surprising. The secret report notes that the plan to make the US dollar Ecuador’s currency has pushed 51% of the population below the poverty line. The World Bank "Assistance" plan simply calls for facing down civil strife and suffering with, "political resolve" - and still higher prices.

The IMF riots (and by riots I mean peaceful demonstrations dispersed by bullets, tanks and teargas) cause new panicked flights of capital and government bankruptcies. This economic arson has it’s bright side - for foreign corporations, who can then pick off remaining assets, such as the odd mining concession or port, at fire sale prices.

Stiglitz notes that the IMF and World Bank are not heartless adherents to market economics. At the same time the IMF stopped Indonesia ‘subsidizing’ food purchases, "when the banks need a bail-out, intervention (in the market) is welcome." The IMF scrounged up tens of billions of dollars to save Indonesia’s financiers and, by extension, the US and European banks from which they had borrowed.

A pattern emerges. There are lots of losers in this system but one clear winner: the Western banks and US Treasury, making the big bucks off this crazy new international capital churn. Stiglitz told me about his unhappy meeting, early in his World Bank tenure, with Ethopia’s new president in the nation’s first democratic election. The World Bank and IMF had ordered Ethiopia to divert aid money to its reserve account at the US Treasury, which pays a pitiful 4% return, while the nation borrowed US dollars at 12% to feed its population. The new president begged Stiglitz to let him use the aid money to rebuild the nation. But no, the loot went straight off to the US Treasury’s vault in Washington.

Now we arrive at Step Four of what the IMF and World Bank call their "poverty reduction strategy": Free Trade. This is free trade by the rules of the World Trade Organization and World Bank, Stiglitz the insider likens free trade WTO-style to the Opium Wars. "That too was about opening markets," he said. As in the 19th century, Europeans and Americans today are kicking down the barriers to sales in Asia, Latin American and Africa, while barricading our own markets against Third World agriculture.

In the Opium Wars, the West used military blockades to force open markets for their unbalanced trade. Today, the World Bank can order a financial blockade just as effective - and sometimes just as deadly.

Stiglitz is particularly emotional over the WTO’s intellectual property rights treaty (it goes by the acronym TRIPS, more on that in the next chapters). It is here, says the economist, that the new global order has "condemned people to death" by imposing impossible tariffs and tributes to pay to pharmaceutical companies for branded medicines. "They don’t care," said the professor of the corporations and bank loans he worked with, "if people live or die."

By the way, don’t be confused by the mix in this discussion of the IMF, World Bank and WTO. They are interchangeable masks of a single governance system. They have locked themselves together by what are unpleasantly called, "triggers." Taking a World Bank loan for a school ‘triggers’ a requirement to accept every ‘conditionality’ - they average 111 per nation - laid down by both the World Bank and IMF. In fact, said Stiglitz the IMF requires nations to accept trade policies more punitive than the official WTO rules.

Stiglitz greatest concern is that World Bank plans, devised in secrecy and driven by an absolutist ideology, are never open for discourse or dissent. Despite the West’s push for elections throughout the developing world, the so-called Poverty Reduction Programs "undermine democracy."

And they don’t work. Black Africa’s productivity under the guiding hand of IMF structural "assistance" has gone to hell in a handbag. Did any nation avoid this fate? Yes, said Stiglitz, identifying Botswana. Their trick? "They told the IMF to go packing."

So then I turned on Stiglitz. OK, Mr Smart-Guy Professor, how would you help developing nations? Stiglitz proposed radical land reform, an attack at the heart of "landlordism," on the usurious rents charged by the propertied oligarchies worldwide, typically 50% of a tenant’s crops. So I had to ask the professor: as you were top economist at the World Bank, why didn’t the Bank follow your advice?

"If you challenge [land ownership], that would be a change in the power of the elites. That’s not high on their agenda." Apparently not.

Ultimately, what drove him to put his job on the line was the failure of the banks and US Treasury to change course when confronted with the crises - failures and suffering perpetrated by their four-step monetarist mambo. Every time their free market solutions failed, the IMF simply demanded more free market policies.

"It’s a little like the Middle Ages," the insider told me, "When the patient died they would say, ‘well, he stopped the bloodletting too soon, he still had a little blood in him.’"

I took away from my talks with the professor that the solution to world poverty and crisis is simple: remove the bloodsuckers.

Now, please don't try to call me a supporter of Communism either. I've seen it at work, close up, and I'm not a fan. I just wanted to point out the invisable hand has several warts on it, and is not even close to a cure all. Profit as a motive is benificial as long as it does not become so huge as to alow it to control the law and its enforcement. I'm sure they don't discus this issue much in University Economics courses. That would be too real.

[Reel Deal]

Feel better, Papi? I post stuff to help educate some of you out of my desire for more enlightened, informed folks, but sometimes I come across folks who refuse to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in their mouths.


I think RD sums it all up perfectly. His give a damn is broke. Sometimes, when dealing with folks who's intellectual alligator mouths are backed by their hummingbird ass, yes it's broke. Maybe you'd like it better if I put some cutesy statement about diddling Third World Wimminzes you'd like it more.



DT you have it all wrong.Not always. Just sometimes. He's a smart young man. I'd love for him to get some university economics/business learnin', 'cuz the guy has a most excellent brain. Stubborn, yes; but excellent nonetheless.



It is not the governments job to help the poor. It is actually the governments job to protect the wealthy. What is one of the first responsibilities of government in a society like ours, or the DR? To protect property and the rights associated with it. Hell, if we can't really own what we think we own then the entire system breaks down. You would never buy a house if you didn't think you could enforce your rights to that property. Wouldn't buy a car if anyone could just walk up and tool away in it without any consequences. The government doesn't have a "job". By collective agreement with the "social contract", we come together to give government specific duties and responsibilities in the organization of how we deal with each other. Read the Constitution and Bill of Rights-that is the purpose and function of the Federal Government. Read your State Constitution-that is the agreement among people for how the state is to be run. Read your County Charter-same thing. Ditto your City Charter. Hell, maybe even your Condo Assn., your Co-Op By Laws, or your Homeowners Association.

And, yes, the protection of property rights is paramount among the world's democracy. Property rights extend from your mansion to your walkman. It's a fundamental human right.


Regretfully those who don't own much don't benefit much from all of this protection the government offers. But hey, that's their own fault, right?Their own fault? I don't know. A man is free to utilize whatever resources he has in whatever manner he chooses. I DO know it's not the government's obligation to give him the property the government protects.

BTW-did you know that home ownership in the US is at an all time high, especially among the minority populations?


Of course sometimes our government takes the additional step of helping those "with" get more. Like by giving tax breaks for interest on mortgages. If you can't get a mortgage you can't benefit from that. Don't blame me. I'm for a total overhaul of the tax code.

But see my comment above about home ownership.


Or like giving tax breaks to lure companies to specific areas under the claim that that area will benefit from the jobs brought there. Well, it works. It's called an "incentive".


Of course people who own small businesses will never see this type of break. Your business needs to be at least into 7 or 8 figures to get that type of hand out.That is Bull Shit, my friend. The SBA has a ton of programs to put folks in business, especially minorities. You have to avail yourself of the help, and abide by their rules. I have been a beneficiary in a past life.



Then there are hand outs like in the recent energy bill giving billions (yes that is a b) of dollars to the energy (read oil) companies for them to do research into alternative energy. Perhaps that should be rescinded and we can let these companies use the 40%-50% increases in profit they have seen for the past two years to do their own research. This is idiotic, classic socialist Class Welfare. Who do you suppose should do the research? Where is it written that a corporation-which is owned by COMMON FOLK-has an obligation to do research for social purposes? The single responsibility a corporation has is to return a profit to it's shareholders-if you believe otherwise, it only shows how ill-informed you are. Were you complaining in past years when oil companies showed record losses? And what evidence do you have the Big Bad Oil Companies-many of which are not US based-aren't doing any research? And what sane company would turn down government assistance? I sure as hell wouldn't.



Shit, in the end it will be these corporations, not the people who paid for the research through their taxes, who will own the patents on whatever they develop.Explain to me any other reasonable arrangement. This I have got to hear... :roll:



RD. as a believer in the free market I'm sure you also condemn all of these examples of corporate welfare, and the distortion of the market that they represent. To not do so would be totally inconsistent.Mortgage deduction is corporate welfare? Are you serious, dude?

Actually, as a Libertarian from waaaaaaay back, I am not in favor of ANY "welfare" (especially corporate) except for those who truly cannot help themselves: the elderly, the sick, and the handicapped.


As for the corruption among the leadership (read that, the wealthy) of third world countries, it isn't quite as easily dealt with as our resident Adam Smith would have you believe. In fact, even if the people of the third world were fortunate enough to participate in free and open elections, and also have as one of their choices a relatively uncorrupt candidate, chances are once elected the leader would not stay that way. Why, you may ask? Because the very organization that is meant to help these countries successfully down the road of capitalism forces corruption down their throats.Please search my posts, and find ONE instance I said dealing with corruption is easy? Don't put words in my mouth, because I don't believe it. Ofter corruption is in the fabric of a culture, such as the DR. At one time littering in America littering was prevalent. Lady Bird Johnson came out with her "beautify America" campaign, and 40 years later, not littering is in the American cultural fabric. The same could be hoped for the DR. It won't stop tomorrow, but with the will of the people, maybe in a number of years corruption will be in it's history.

And you think socialism or Communism is less corrupt than capitalism? WTF??? Are you serious?

SYSTEMS aren't corrupt, people are. And the UN (and prolly the World Bank and IMF, and all the rest of the international bureaucracies) could be poster boys of corruption. It ain't limited to the DR.


Read some of the comments of the recent Chief Economist of the World Bank, Joseph Stiglitz. No lefty he, but a distinguished member of the faculties of Yale, MIT and Stanford, a winner of the Nobel prize for Economics, and later part of the US treasury , before joining the World Bank.


Not everyone agrees with Stiglitz: http://www.imf.org/external/np/vc/2002/070202.HTM

Arafat won a Nobel Prize, too, for Peace. You posted one article. I can post a hundred dissenting opinions. But why should I? You have no education in either business or economics, or you wouldn't post the populist drivel you have. Why fight with an unarmed man?

I realize you will not let facts interfere with your opinion; so be it. It's your choice to grasp education, not mine. It's so much easier to blame the government or rich guy for your personal failings, isn't it?

Thanks for the comment about the ISOC resident "Adam Smith". I am proud of my educational achievements. While others were out partying and raising hell, I had to stay in and study. Looking back on it now, it wasn't a sacrifice, but the best investment of my life.

And Papi, I'm still waiting for you to point out the "Nazi" comment you said I allegedly made. What's taking you so long?

[PapiQueRico]

I walked away from the previous thread to avoid just this type of back and forth, which in general is not good for the site. I'll do so again here, though it is more difficult as your posts become less on topic and more personally insulting.

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:27 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Sliver Lining?

Dubya ordered the EPA to temporarily suspend the requirement that there be over 40 different blends of gas that different municipalities, counties, and states require. This will definitely help the supply og gas Big Time.

But I wonder what the point is of releasing crude from the SPR if there are no refineries to process it.

Maybe now we'll see the need to build more refineries (the environmental Nazi's have insured no new ones be built in 35 years...), and pump oil from ANWAR and the FL Gulf Coast.

Adjusted for inflation (in todays dollars), the highest average price for gas in US history is $4.18 a gallon from 1974.

[Don Tomas]

I think RD sums it all up perfectly. His give a damn is broke. DT you have it all wrong. It is not the governments job to help the poor. It is actually the governments job to protect the wealthy.

I am very confused here: You are making a generalization that I agree with completely but you are using it to say I am wrong with two specific issues that it doesn't apply to! You are trying to use the statement to remove the liability from the goverment, when in fact it is very liable for the PUBLIC insitutions it formed.

PUBLIC Hospitals & Schools are the responsibility of the government. If they can't be responsible for them then they shouldn't have built them in the first place or they should sell them off. That is the meaning & spirit of the word PUBLIC.

Maybe you should grab a dictionary and look up the word public when used to describe a government ran insitution.

I believe in smaller government and people helping themselves but the reality of the matter is that the governments of the world do spend money to help everyone, the rich & poor, of course not properly balanced. What my point is that the government rather then spending the money on a mass transit system in SD or the new highway from SD to Samana should spend that money on some chairs and surgical gowns.

Next you will be telling me the government isn't responsible for the public roads and infrastructure.

You know sometimes I wonder if you guys with your degrees and classes in economics are not just reading from a textbook about economic theories, which sound great on paper.

Remember all of these economic models are just theories, using humanity to test them out made up by a bunch of guys who probably don't know how to drive a car and never seen the outside of the college campus. AKA People who have no clue on how the real world operates. Now don't get me wrong some of the theories work, but most do nothing or fail.

Come on college scholars, is there any economic model that isn't a theory anymore? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

[PapiQueRico]

DT, I was being sarcastic when I said you had it all wrong. I agree with you, for the most part.

[bigcity]

DR ecomomy is bad right now, Leonel needs to ask the US for some dollars asap but he does not want. My cousin and friends tells me things are getting worst down in DR they have no money.I disagree. The DR will probably end the year as the fastest growing economy in Central America.

Businesses are investing in themselves (as I predicted several monbths ago they would). There is new construction everywhere.

The fuel situation could hurt the DR like it's hurting the US, however.

Actually the DR gets its fuel from South America which is the most affordable place to purchase it from so they won't have as many issues with the fuel hike as we do.

I agree that you have to be very careful where you stay in DR. You can get easily sick. I surveyed many Sosua locations during my last trip to DR and I must say that you guys are brave to stay in Sosua. I am not surprised that guys are getting sick. Everything is for sale because it is all falling apart. I liked Costambar better even though it also has the little problem with the smell from the power plant creaping in occassionally but it is a much cleaner environment.

Also the economy is greatly improved. Last year the peso was at $50/dollar and that was at its worst for development. Prices were through the roof. The next few months we should see some prices going down and evening out with the $28/dollar rate. If you are going to retire somewhere it will soon be time to buy a little piece of land and grow your home little by little.

Bigcity

Pimpin ain't ez but it shouldn't be this expensive...
8O :twisted: :evil:

[WSJ3]

Actually the DR gets its fuel from South America which is the most affordable place to purchase it from so they won't have as many issues with the fuel hike as we do.

I agree that you have to be very careful where you stay in DR. You can get easily sick. I surveyed many Sosua locations during my last trip to DR and I must say that you guys are brave to stay in Sosua. I am not surprised that guys are getting sick. Everything is for sale because it is all falling apart. I liked Costambar better even though it also has the little problem with the smell from the power plant creaping in occassionally but it is a much cleaner environment.

Also the economy is greatly improved. Last year the peso was at $50/dollar and that was at its worst for development. Prices were through the roof. The next few months we should see some prices going down and evening out with the $28/dollar rate. If you are going to retire somewhere it will soon be time to buy a little piece of land and grow your home little by little.

Bigcity

Pimpin ain't ez but it shouldn't be this expensive...
8O :twisted: :evil:

You just have to be careful what you eat and drink...

And bring some medicine with you to offset any bacteria that you might ingest.

In the past 6 trips to Sosua...I have only gotten the taco shites one time...

That was because I was eating those raw oysters (THANK YOU PSRICHES)

LOL...