Are mongers in DR and Sosua the reason there is prostitution?

[greydread]

Dominican Schminican...you're going to stretch it out to get your moneys worth. get with a Dominicana for 6 months and tell us how long it lasts.

Pop Pop, Skeet Skeet, Night Night!

Buying a new slice of Punani is like renting a jeep. If you owned it you wouldn't drive it nearly as hard.

"Cobrabuoy"

Since you like quoting my ISOC posts on "DR1"....

Go toss a salad you big Fag!!!

Now run quote DAT!!

[Apos]

I imagine there are some here that have some stories of when he used to vacation here....his handle here is/was Reel Deal

[greydread]

I imagine there are some here that have some stories of when he used to vacation here....his handle here is/was Reel Deal

Well his new handle ought to be fake deal. The clown sends me a PM over there telling me how "he knows that I'm an ISOC member and I'm not "as anonymous as I think I am" and this sort of garbage.

Gott Daam. Not for nothing but I've got the same handle on both sites. Does that sound like someone looking for anonymity?

Unlike this clown who used to visit the island to chase P4P Punani like 10,000 other guys before getting tied up in the apron strings and pussy whipped until he became a bobble head lap dog for the feminazies by declaring all P4P as "degrading to all Women" and "every Man who ever went to the DR and laid with a Puta a dirty whore monger and a loser back home who can't get a decent Woman" (daam, if he only knew).

I can't stand a two faced Mothafucka which is why I refuse to be one. I don't often post on this subject over there because I know how the Cunts will react...some of the Women, too but when the (very obvious) subject of sex tourism does come up I refuse to adopt a double standard just because their "polite society" is watching. Fuck them. If they didn't want to know then they shouldn't have asked.

Buying Punani for a night of an hour or however long you feel like negotiating for or she feels like staying is just as legal in the DR as buying it for "until death do we part" (or divorce) or just living with a Woman in a "private Ho" arrangement. Polite society might not like it but that's the way it is and who the fuck pulls up stakes and moves to some 3rd World jungle habitat to suck up to "polite society" anyway I didn't know that social climbing even existed there before I started running into these kinds of suckups. Daam.

[Jimmydr]

I imagine there are some here that have some stories of when he used to vacation here....his handle here is/was Reel Deal

He lives there now, or it did.

[Reel Deal]

Well his new handle ought to be fake deal. The clown sends me a PM over there telling me how "he knows that I'm an ISOC member and I'm not "as anonymous as I think I am" and this sort of garbage.

Gott Daam. Not for nothing but I've got the same handle on both sites. Does that sound like someone looking for anonymity?

Unlike this clown who used to visit the island to chase P4P Punani like 10,000 other guys before getting tied up in the apron strings and pussy whipped until he became a bobble head lap dog for the feminazies by declaring all P4P as "degrading to all Women" and "every Man who ever went to the DR and laid with a Puta a dirty whore monger and a loser back home who can't get a decent Woman" (daam, if he only knew).

I can't stand a two faced Mothafucka which is why I refuse to be one. I don't often post on this subject over there because I know how the Cunts will react...some of the Women, too but when the (very obvious) subject of sex tourism does come up I refuse to adopt a double standard just because their "polite society" is watching. Fuck them. If they didn't want to know then they shouldn't have asked.

Buying Punani for a night of an hour or however long you feel like negotiating for or she feels like staying is just as legal in the DR as buying it for "until death do we part" (or divorce) or just living with a Woman in a "private Ho" arrangement. Polite society might not like it but that's the way it is and who the fuck pulls up stakes and moves to some 3rd World jungle habitat to suck up to "polite society" anyway I didn't know that social climbing even existed there before I started running into these kinds of suckups. Daam.

Is that what you think, dread? That I'm a pussy-whipped hypocrite?

That I chose to attack you? Out of the blue?

That I'm playing to the "cunts?"

That I'm some sort of Jimmy Swaggart? That I don't drink, gamble or have sex? Is that your paradigm? That I'm some sort of sexually repressed church-goer Goody Two Shoes?

That I'm some sort of "suck up?"

Ever occur to you to back off the defensive crap and ASK me back channel what's going on? Or did your brain go into "me vs. the world, I know it all" default mode?

Look: I live in the DR. I have for well over two years. I don't live in a tourist town and rarely are around tourists. I have Dominican partners in a business and hire several Dominicans there and in another business. It has taken two years of being straight with Dominicans to begin to trust me. See, Gringos in the DR are very much distrusted by MOST Dominicans. Why? Because the average tourist they come in contact with are losers and idiots. And until I PROVED myself, I was considered an idiot loser tourist. Hell, no one knew of my education or business background; but when I was accepted and they found out-not from me-the business opportunities have exploded.

Dude, listen up: I DON'T MAKE THE RULES HERE. YOU DON'T MAKE THE RULES HERE. THIS COUNTRY BELONGS TO 10,000,000 DOMINICANS AND YOU BARELY SEE A TINY FRACTION OF THEM IN SOSUA AND BOCA CHICA. THEY MAKE THE RULES HERE. NOT YOU. NOT ME. NOT THE BRAINTRUST OF ISOC. AND ALL THE RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION, SWEARING, AND SMACK ON A MESSAGE BOARD IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT.

As a GUEST RESIDENT here, I have learned that the best way to build respect from Dominicans-I guess I mean the middle and upper echelons of Dominican society, not those in the poor barrios-is to offer respect to Dominicans and their culture. So I have listened intently to what they say. I have studied the non-verbal cues. My strategy: the best way to become accepted into the Dominican culture is to respect their culture. That means eating foods I don't care for. That means wasting a half hour with a lawyer on chit-chat while his meter is running. That means spending every Sunday evening with family when there are things I'd rather be doing like watching football. That means going to hospitals to see the sick elderly, going to funeral homes and walling in a funeral procession when a cousin of a cousin's uncle passes away. That means accepting a shot of some god-awful "digestiva" after dinner and trying not to puke. That means a gift for a cousin's kid graduating from elementary school. That means joining every civic organization when asked...because that's what they do. (However, the GOOD news is getting invited to some awesome parties where the beer, rum and roasted pig runs free, access to bank credit on the word of a friend or colleague, inclusion into exclusive private clubs and events.)

And you know what I've learned? That in all my years of traveling to the DR-starting back in '87, and accelerating when I started flying my plane down in '04 with Don Tomas-is that I had the Dominican culture all wrong.

Just as you do, too. Just as anyone who travels to the DR for a week or two, staying in a hotel in a tourist area and hanging with other tourists-or Dominicans who benefit from hanging around tourists-would.

You vacation here for one purpose. I LIVE here for another.

And let me type this really slowly-again-so maybe you'll READ it and allow it to SINK INTO YOUR THICK SKULL:

The vast majority of Dominicans and expat RESIDENTS think sex tourism demeans their country and is a blight on their proud heritage. They have little respect for those seen as sex tourists. My comments are about cultural sensitivity and understanding from tourists.

Again, once more:

The vast majority of Dominicans and expat RESIDENTS think sex tourism demeans their country and is a blight on their proud heritage. They have little respect for those seen as sex tourists. My comments are about cultural sensitivity and understanding from tourists.

Did you read that, or do I need to type it again? That is NOT my opinion. It is THEIRS. Ignore it if you want. Laugh it off if you want. But facts are facts, and if you base your opinion on something other than facts than your opinion is baseless.

When you weighed in on that thread, my PM box exploded. I KNOW many DR1ers who live in the DR personally. They told me their thoughts on your comments.

I ~tried~ to get you to chill. But, NO! You're too stubborn and thick-headed to read the subtleties between the lines, and instead of some strategic thinking you defaulted to "aggressive defensive" and charged forward with smack. Brilliant!

You took shit personal that you shouldn't have. But that's just you I guess.

You guys need to realize ISOC became known to many, especially DR1ers, because of the "kidnapping" dealio and the drama that ensued. And while folks came here to see how DR1 was being "slandered"-THEIR words, not mine-many stayed and poked around. I'm sure a review of the IP logs can verify this. Many had no idea a place like this existed.

Dread, my opinion of p4p has evolved somewhat, and you can laugh and mock all you want. I am a bare-knuckled Libertarian. I think sex, drug, alcohol and gambling laws are far too repressive. I am a hard-core agnostic. I think churches should either have the shit taxed out of them like other businesses are, or everybody else should have the same tax breaks as churches. I don't want ~ANY~ religion in gubmint, nor ~any~ gubmint in religion. I'm a staunch free-marketer and think every man is personally responsible for himself and not to gubmint or anyone but his family.

If some high-school dropout in the states wants to hook or work at a tug palace, I don't give a crap. SHE had choices in life and made one. She had a chance at edumacation and chose the "easy" route.


But I've had the opportunity to do a good amount of charity work for several family foundations. There are off-the-radar Dominican institutions that foreigners don't know even exist. They all deal with the poorest of the poor Dominicans, in Santiago, Janico, Los Dajos, Cerro Prieto and La Vega-and that doesn't include taking on that Haitian orphanage I wrote about on DR1. Hours and hours and hours I have spent swinging hammers, packing food in boxes, serving food onto plates with a big spoon, slopping paint on schoolhouse walls, making photo and video documentaries, building free web sites, you name it. And I have SEEN the tears stream down the face of a mother whose daughter is hooking in La Vaga, the sad eyes of a poor dad who is not able to produce enough income to keep his daughter from blowing tourists to buy food and clothing for her young brothers and sisters. I've seen the heartbreak of these proud families because THEIR options are limited and the sex trade for their prettier women and boys is about the only option they have; the less attractive ones don't even have that option. I have witnessed the family destruction it causes, the social fabric of a community stressed.

When you've seen what I've seen, you'll see that the exploitation of poor young women and boys in the Dominican Republic...and maybe all sex tourist areas...is very similar in many respects to the slavemaster exploiting his poor female and male slaves: it's all about choices, economic power and who wields it.

Again, I'll type really slowly:
*I personally have NO problem with the life you've chosen for yourself.
*You're a Big Boy and are only responsible for yourself.
*I don't expect you to change any behavior, nor do I even want you to.
*You are as meaningless in my life as I am in yours.
*You can choose to acknowledge and respect the Dominican culture as you want them to respect yours.
*If you choose not to acknowledge and respect the dominican culture, that's your choice.

I don't expect you to see it that way. I expect you to dig your heels in and become even MORE defensive if that's even possible. It is what it is.

But since you often pontificate being rational and "open-minded", why not consider my opinion...and the opinions of MANY Dominicans and expat residents...as valid?

One more thing: if you think I don't respect folks on ISOC, you're full of crap. There are MANY here I enjoy good relationships with without any judgement on how they choose to spend their vacation time whatsoever! But many of them do understand the respect of the culture I mention.

[gdogg]

WOW!! That was a post. Whattup RD.

[Jimmydr]

WOW!! That was a post. Whattup RD.

That was some post, it gets its own topic now.

[gdogg]

That was some post, it gets its own topic now.

Yeah, I'm now reading the long thread (on another network, lol) that started this.

[Jimmydr]

Yeah, I'm now reading the long thread (on another network, lol) that started this.

Can you post the link?

[Maretti]

...I have SEEN the tears stream down the face of a mother whose daughter is hooking in La Vaga, the sad eyes of a poor dad who is not able to produce enough income to keep his daughter from blowing tourists to buy food and clothing for her young brothers and sisters...

Very touching, but why didn't they think about that before they had those daughters? I bet that the economic situation at that time wasn't better than today's.

[gdogg]

Can you post the link?

Turns out I was reading a different thread. I'm still looking for it. I'll post a link when I find it.

[The Sage]

I had a more intensive response, but Jimmy moved the tread and when I went to my heartfelt work disappeared. In a nutshell blaming tourist for prostitution on the island is simply hunting for a scapegoat for a homebred problem. As many of you know most of the houses de chicas on the island are frequented my dominican men. The street walkers in Santiago are exclusively used by dominican men. Families basically selling young girls to older dominican men is not a tourist problem. The abuse that dominican men heap on dominican women is not a tourist problem. When it really comes down to it we are just a small portion of the "john" population there. I suspect the real problem is that tourist money is enticing middle to upper class women to enter the game where before it was primarily the province of poor women. And to compare prostitution to slavery is entirely condescending to anyone who's ancestors actually lived through slavery. I might be wrong here, but to my recollection slaves did not receive wages let alone be paid for one hour's work what a average person would make in a week. The truth of the matter is prostitution is one of those fine dominican heritages RD cites. There are more dominican workers practicing their craft across the globe than all, but two other countries and this is from an island of just 10,000,000 people. I understand where RD is coming from the problem is he completely ignores that when it comes to the treatment of women dominican culture is just a little bit fucked up.

[Jimmydr]

Very touching, but why didn't they think about that before they had those daughters? I bet that the economic situation at that time wasn't better than today's.

See, they do look on these boards and see the pictures.

[gdogg]

Very touching, but why didn't they think about that before they had those daughters? I bet that the economic situation at that time wasn't better than today's.

People planning to have children...now that's a pleasant thought.

[Jimmydr]

I had a more intensive response, but Jimmy moved the tread and when I went to enter it disappeared. In a nutshell blaming tourist for prostitution on the island is simply hunting for a scapegoat for a homebred problem. As many of you know most of the houses de chicas on the island our frequented my dominican men. The street walkers in Santiago are exclusively used by dominican men. Families basically selling young girls to older dominican men is not a tourist problem. The abuse that dominican men heap on dominican women is not a tourist problem. When it really come down to it we are just a small portion of the "john" population there. I suspect the real problem is that tourist money is enticing middle to upper class women to enter the game where before it was primarily the province of poor women. And to compare prostitution to slavery is entirely condescending to anyone who's ancestors actually lived through slavery. I might be wrong here, but to my recollection slaves did not receive wages let alone be paid for one hours work what a average person would make in a week. The truth of the matter is prostitution is one of those fine dominican heritages RD cites. There are more dominican workers practicing their craft across the globe than all, but two other countries in the world and this is from an island of just 10,000,000 people. I understand where RD is coming from the problem is he completely ignores that when it comes to the treatment of women dominican culture is just a little bit fucked up.

When Lionel became President, he was going to shut all the whorehouse in the Capital. Less than 24 hours later, the Dominican Supreme Court ruled that, that move would be illegal and that they would arrest the President if he did that.

Dominican men love hookers more than we do.

[Jimmydr]

People planning to have children...now that's a pleasant thought.

Since there really isn't anything like child support there, no reason for Dominican men not to bang out kids.

[Jimmydr]

I had a more intensive response, but Jimmy moved the tread and when I went to my heartfelt work disappeared.

This kind of topic needs to stand alone by itself and not get lost in the middle of some other topic.

[gdogg]

Can you post the link?

Turns out I was reading a different thread. I'm still looking for it. I'll post a link when I find it.

"The Right to Confront an American For Being a Perv."
(courtesy of DR1)

http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-st...eing-perv.html

[JD426]

So all those Cabanas were built for the Gringos who rent Cars while on vacation. Another interesting factoid I didnt know.
"a mother had tears streaming down her face because her daughter is a Puta " ??
I think those are tears of Joy, cause the whole family is eating 3 meals a day & the baby is not CRYING & HUNGRY all because there is one Puta in the house earning some money.
Which is better, a mother crying from Shame , or a BABY crying FROM HUNGER ??
FUCKING PICK ONE !!!! cause I dont think Cleaning Toilets at the Hotels would have paid her more $ .

Hypocrite asshole.


This guy is obviously very intelligent and well spoken, but as is the case with some people they have their heads so far up their asses, they cant see the road. Prostitutions is the oldest business in the world.
You dont want to be a prostitute, GO TO SCHOOL or marry a RICH GRINGO. and oh yeagh, teach your daughters to stop having babies at 14, the father of which is Some local wanna be, without a POT to PISS in. Blame THAT little fucker for scewing up your daughters life, NOT the Gringo, with the Fat Wallet...
Fucking hypocrite...

[Reel Deal]

Very touching, but why didn't they think about that before they had those daughters? I bet that the economic situation at that time wasn't better than today's.

Had I, a white guy, had said that about poor women in the hood in, say, Harlem-seeing how they and Dominicans are likely both people of color-I'd be excoriated by folks here as a culturally insensitive racist swine.

I am of the belief that in a man's journey from birth to death he evolves several times. If that evolution takes him in a different direction away from his prior state, that is hardly hypocrisy. In fact if a man *doesn't* evolve he's never developed. That is what Maslow wrote about and on which he developed his "Heirarchy of Needs."

If "hypocrisy" is defined as acts done today that are in conflict with acts done in prior periods, every human, in some form or fashion-not to mention every ISOCer-is a hypocrite. We ALL wear that yoke. Why? Because every married or formerly married guy here has pledged to to be faithful and honor their marital commitments, or pledged faith to a girlfriend-and failed. We know how that goes. That would mean a formerly married ISOCer who fucked around but is no longer married is a hypocrite.

But I don't believe that for a nanosecond. Folks evolve as people. Folks change. I have changed several times in my life. Greydread has changed, I'm sure.

Hypocrisy is doing today what you preach against today. Hypocrisy isn't NOT doing today what you have done in the past.

Yes, living in a developing country 24/7/365 and living with the people here every day has changed me. I'm humbled. I took for granted many of the material comforts and opportunities available to me, growing up as a middle-class American (which is a mega-wealthy Dominican), that are unreachable dreams to many Dominicans and Haitians. I see folks who will forever be underemployed and their full potential as people never realized. It's sad in many ways.

If those experiences have changed me into what some might think is a "two-faced pussy"...well, that says more about them than it does me.

And you know what? I'm still very young @ 58. I might even evolve some more. I hope, anyway...